Va State Legislator-Black People Should "Get Over" Slavery - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-17-2007, 02:01 PM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,295
Local Time: 07:26 PM
Is there something in the water in Virginia?
__________________

__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 02:11 PM   #17
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


We do, look around. Look at the economic gaps and the racism we still have in this country. These are results of slavery, quit acting like it isn't.
Racism exists without slavery and poverty is multifactorial.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 02:24 PM   #18
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,690
Local Time: 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Racism exists without slavery and poverty is multifactorial.
Never said it was the only factor.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 01-17-2007, 02:31 PM   #19
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 10:26 AM
Is it because of disadvantage that reparations are relevent?
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 03:00 PM   #20
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:26 AM
Just to clarify, the Virginia measure has nothing to do with reparations...
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 03:16 PM   #21
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,496
Local Time: 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Is there something in the water in Virginia?


actually, it's quite nasty in the NoVA area. everyone i know owns a Brita filter.

but then, NoVA is the liberal part of the state and the economic hub of everything that basically subsidizes the rest of the state and their shockingly backwards attitudes. you know, the people who voted for George Allen and that repulsive "marriage" amendment.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 03:32 PM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 05:26 PM
With all due respect to our very progressive FYM Richmonder ... I grew up in southern Virginia and fled, quite literally, as soon as I graduated from college. While there are progressive pockets throughout the state, I am still appalled by how racist and backwards the thinking there is in my hometown and the surrounding area, including Richmond, and how much people in my town really resent me for having left and for thinking differently. Once my mother with Alzheimer's passes, I will probably never return to that part of the state. My young neices and nephew, however, do give me hope since they, so far, seem to be color blind. They didn't get that at home, so it must've been their good auntie's influence. Or, better yet, the random good teacher. Then again, I didn't get that at home either. I don't know what makes a kid think differently from the family they're raised in but I digress...

And there is definitely something in the water, but maybe not what you think. All five of my former roommates from college came out after we graduated. Every single one of them. I am the lone straight girl from my circle of college friends, lol.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 04:31 PM   #23
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Canadiens1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,363
Local Time: 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl

And there is definitely something in the water, but maybe not what you think. All five of my former roommates from college came out after we graduated. Every single one of them. I am the lone straight girl from my circle of college friends, lol.
__________________
Canadiens1131 is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 04:36 PM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
With all due respect to our very progressive FYM Richmonder ...
Who could that be...?



Yeah Virginia sure has it's problems, but I love living here. Maybe I can bring some more dignity to the political scene around here


By the way my ancestors owned a plantation here in Virginia that had several slaves, but I don't feel like I should be blamed for what they did Naturally I don't agree with it, and yes the repurcussions of slavery are still around, but that was 150 years ago and I have no control over it.
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 04:48 PM   #25
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,496
Local Time: 07:26 PM
i think this is where inelegant but understandable programs like Affirmative Action come into play.

it doesn't seem right to hold, say, U2democrat accountable for slavery, or that she somehow owes a group of people a specific financial sum for past actions taken. she didn't choose to be born into her family, just like an inner-city African-American (or Paris Hilton) didn't choose where they were born. and the handing out of a lump sum of money isn't going to do much to rectify anyone's situation.

however, it also seems obvious that a history founded in slavery, as well as the persistent legacy of discrimination that is still very, very recent history, has repercussions for life today and many social ills that affect African-Americans in disproportionate numbers (crime, poverty, HIV/AIDS) can find their roots in historical injustices.

thus, it seems that there are things we can do on a societal level to help ameliorate the past that will not hold an individual personally accountable for a history that they might benefit from, but had no hand in creating.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 05:06 PM   #26
Blue Crack Supplier
 
elevated_u2_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: I'm here 'cus I don't want to go home
Posts: 31,694
Local Time: 07:26 PM
Me + 10 foot pole... no still not touching this.
__________________
elevated_u2_fan is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 05:22 PM   #27
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
By the way my ancestors owned a plantation here in Virginia that had several slaves, but I don't feel like I should be blamed for what they did Naturally I don't agree with it, and yes the repurcussions of slavery are still around, but that was 150 years ago and I have no control over it.
I'm sure that must be true of the ancestors of some of the delegates and other politicians supporting this measure, though. And slaveholders were hardly the only ones who profited from the slave system. One of the African-American sponsoring delegates, McEachin I think his name was, emphasized that the resolution is part of a still-needed healing process and that no one is asking any individual to apologize as there are neither slaves nor slaveholders around today.
Quote:
Yeah Virginia sure has it's problems, but I love living here. Maybe I can bring some more dignity to the political scene around here
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 06:42 PM   #28
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

I'm sure that must be true of the ancestors of some of the delegates and other politicians supporting this measure, though. And slaveholders were hardly the only ones who profited from the slave system. One of the African-American sponsoring delegates, McEachin I think his name was, emphasized that the resolution is part of a still-needed healing process and that no one is asking any individual to apologize as there are neither slaves nor slaveholders around today.

Right, if I were in the legislature (which I will be one day... ) I'd vote for the resolution, but I would emphasize that while we are apologizing for Virginia's past with slavery, we need to move forward with race relations.


Speaking of Virginia and history and whatnot, everybody should come for the 400th anniversary of the landing at Jamestown this year Even Queen Elizabeth is coming
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 06:57 PM   #29
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 07:26 PM
It's something that happened long ago in history that still directly affects society today. As far as we progress and have progressed, the fact that their ancestors were treated like that must impact their views in ways that white people cannot understand. White people saying it, since white people were the ones who enslaved African Americans, is just patently offensive.

I'm surprised he didn't say that Jewish people should "get over" the Holocaust too.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 01-17-2007, 07:05 PM   #30
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
It's something that happened long ago in history that still directly affects society today. As far as we progress and have progressed, the fact that their ancestors were treated like that must impact their views in ways that white people cannot understand. White people saying it, since white people were the ones who enslaved African Americans, is just patently offensive.

I'm surprised he didn't say that Jewish people should "get over" the Holocaust too.
Whites were not the only slave owners.
http://afroamhistory.about.com/od/sl...trans+atlantic

Quote:
The Slave Trade
From Jessica McElrath,
Your Guide to African-American History.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!
Slavery in Africa and Other Countries
From the earliest known history of Africa, slavery existed. However, slavery was much different from the modern day slavery that eventually came to dominate the New World. For most parts of Africa, slavery was not based on race. For example, Egyptians enslaved whomever they captured, regardless of race.

Slavery was also prevalent in other countries. Slavery was common to the Greek and Roman empires. Those that were enslaved were put to work in the fields and were used as personal servants to the wealthy. Menial work was not considered degrading, and slaves were given educational opportunities.

Intellectual Changes and the Acceptance of Slavery

The institution of slavery was strongly influenced by the Muslim invasion of Africa. They captured men to serve in the military and women to serve their harems. They sent slaves to Arabia and Persia. The demand for slaves was not substantial since it was dependent upon the needs of the wealthy. Slaves were not needed to work in fields. Instead, they were treated as servants and did not experience the same harshness as modern slaves.

The institution of modern slavery was influenced by a change in the worldview. This change resulted from the influence of the Renaissance period and from the Commercial Revolution. The Renaissance created a new outlook on the individual. Renaissance thought promoted the idea that the rights and interests of the individual took precedence over the benefit of others. The Commercial Revolution, on the other hand, took place after feudalism had ended, and it created a new avenue of commercial activities to pursue. With the rise of commercial endeavors came competition and greed. Based upon these changes, modern slavery arose in an era where greed and self-interest dominated.

By the end of the fourteenth century, Europeans, mainly Portuguese and Spaniards, began bringing African slaves to Europe. They made them into servants, and justified it by rationalizing that they were introducing them to Christianity. The slave trade quickly became a profitable and an accepted part of European commerce.

By the end of the fifteenth century, European trade relations with African’s were well established. Forts and trading ports were built. However, the slave trade was not exceedingly profitable, nor was it engaged in on a large scale. There was not a substantial demand for slaves in European countries. Slaves mainly served the wealthy, and of the many jobs that were available, the white landless population filled them. Thus, slavery in Europe had no profitable future.

As Europeans were exploring the New World, Africans often accompanied them serving as explorers and servants. The New World was full of natural resources that European countries were interested in exploiting. For this, labor was needed. Despite having Africans working in other capacities, Europeans did not immediately enslave them. Instead, since Native Americans were readily available, they were used as slaves first. However, because Europeans brought diseases, there was a high mortality rate and the work was too harsh.

Europeans next looked to the employment of poor whites to serve as indentured servants. However, many problems arose. Often indentured servants ran away, refused to serve out their term, and there were not enough of them to work in the fields.

Thus, the enslavement of Africans quickly became the solution.

Sponsored Links
African American Grants
$30,000 in African American Grants Never Repay - Get Your Free Kit.
AfricanAmerican.Free-Grant-Kit.com

Black History Month
Discover your African American ancestors in historical records.
Ancestry.com

Black History
Free reference info on important people and events in Black History
www.Starware.com/Reference
It appeared to solve the need of cheap labor since slaves in Africa could be easily obtained.
The Slave Trade

In 1517, the trans-Atlantic slave trade officially began. As slave trading developed into big business, European countries vied for dominance. By the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the main traders were Dutch, French, and English companies. While independent traders existed, the Dutch West India Company and the English Royal African Company monopolized trading relations on the African coast. However, in the end, England came to dominate trading, and began providing slaves to not only its own colonies, but to other countries colonies.

The trading process began at trading posts on the west coast of Africa. African kings and merchants cooperated and traded slaves for European goods that included guns, whiskey, brandy, cotton textiles, and utensils made out of brass, pewter, and ivory. The trading of European goods for slaves was known as the first leg of the triangular trade.

Obtaining slaves was not always easy. Africans acquired slaves by capturing Africans from other tribes. Not all captors went without a fight. When the opportunity arose, attempts were made to escape. Some even jumped into the ocean rather than be taken to the New World. Those that did not escape had to endure the long trip across the Atlantic Ocean to the New World. This was called the middle passage of the triangular trade.

The last phase of the triangular trade occurred after slaves were brought to the Americas. When slaves arrived, they were sold to plantations. In exchange for the slaves, traders received goods such as cotton, tobacco, and sugar, and returned to Europe with these items. This was the last leg of the triangular trade.

In early 1800s, many countries began banning the slave trade. Denmark (1803), Great Britain (1807), and the United States (1807) were the first to ban the importation of slaves. The Swedish and Dutch followed. Because of economic interests, Great Britain put pressure on France, Spain, Portugal, and Brazil to end their involvement. Portugal and Spain agreed after an arrangement for a cash payment from Britain was reached. Brazil did not agree until military action was taken against its coastal areas. France also did not agree to ban trading until 1815, but black market slave trading still existed until 1848.

Reference: From Slavery to Freedom: A History of African Americans, John Hope Franklin & Alfred A. Moss, Jr., 2000. ISBN 0-375-40671-9
__________________

__________________
Justin24 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com