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Old 03-19-2006, 11:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


Glad you liked the movie. But can't we have just ONE movie; where the terrorists of Islamic radicalism that fly planes into buildings, blowup bombs in crowded markets, decapitate innocent hostages, and riot over cartoons... are the bad guys. And those that brave their lives to stop them are the heroes.
Just ONE.
maybe you could check out some of the movies in this article.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:39 AM   #17
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It was the number one movie over the weekend

Roger Ebert's review

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/...VIEWS/60308005

"There are ideas in this film. The most pointed is V’s belief: “People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” I am not sure V has it right; surely in the ideal state governments and their people should exist happily together. Fear in either direction must lead to violence. But V has a totalitarian state to overthrow, and only a year to do it in, and we watch as he improvises a revolution. He gets little support, although Stephen Fry plays a dissident TV host who criticizes the government at his peril.

With most action thrillers based on graphic novels, we simply watch the sound and light show. "V for Vendetta," directed by James McTeigue, almost always has something going on that is actually interesting, inviting us to decode the character and plot and apply the message where we will. There are times when you think the soundtrack should be supplying "Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols. The movie ends with a violent act that left me, as a lover of London, intensely unhappy; surely V's enemy is human, not architectural.

The film has been disowned by Alan Moore, who was also unhappy with the movie versions of his graphic novels From Hell and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, but then any sane person would have been unhappy with the Gentlemen. I have not read the original work, do not know what has been changed or gone missing, but found an audacious confusion of ideas in "V for Vendetta" and enjoyed their manic disorganization. To attempt a parable about terrorism and totalitarianism that would be relevant and readable might be impossible, could be dangerous and would probably not be box office. "
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Old 03-20-2006, 09:29 AM   #18
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Re: V For Vendetta Pro Terrorist

Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Both the book and it would seem the film take government of the day as the model for proto-fascist regimes (Thatcher for the book, Bush for the film). That is the creators prerogative - the threat does come from statists at home and abroad, one mustn't ignore those tendencies even when couched with the benefit of being "other".
I think if the book took the Thatcher government as a model for a proto-fascist regime it was entirely mistaken to do so, Thatcher's government put the statists in their place if anything, of course it turned out to be a temporary blip as now the statists are stonger than ever.

I think that in my lifetime the public sector and governments have largely created the problems and the private sector has largely created the solutions, I believe that is what Thatcher was getting at with her much misunderstood 'there is no such thing as society. There are only families, and individuals' comment.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:03 PM   #19
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Alan Moore on why he had his name taken off the credits:

"As far I'm concerned, the two poles of politics were not Left Wing or Right Wing. In fact they're just two ways of ordering an industrial society and we're fast moving beyond the industrial societies of the 19th and 20th centuries. It seemed to me the two more absolute extremes were anarchy and fascism. This was one of the things I objected to in the recent film, where it seems to be, from the script that I read, sort of recasting it as current American neo-conservatism vs. current American liberalism. There wasn't a mention of anarchy as far as I could see. The fascism had been completely defanged. I mean, I think that any references to racial purity had been excised, whereas actually, fascists are quite big on racial purity."

Sounds like the book was much more nuanced than the film was.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:37 AM   #20
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Well I just hope that people take the effort of slicing their biometric national ID cards or turning off/spraying CCTV cameras. Such acts of civil disobedience would be a futile but still principled form of ongoing rejection to these systems - and they will come into force when the water is right, give it a nuclear or biological terror attack and many will surrender liberty for security - after all they would say that they have nothing to hide.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:55 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Well I just hope that people take the effort of slicing their biometric national ID cards or turning off/spraying CCTV cameras. Such acts of civil disobedience would be a futile but still principled form of ongoing rejection to these systems - and they will come into force when the water is right, give it a nuclear or biological terror attack and many will surrender liberty for security - after all they would say that they have nothing to hide.
so.. are you saying that if you scare the hell out of people with say... WMDs or mindlessly evil terrorists who want nothing but destruction.. they will be more likely to give up their liberties? that sounds awfully like.. something.. dont you think?
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:02 AM   #22
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I think that you can fight fascists and preserve your liberties. You can see the nature of government as well as those who would want to run the Caliphate having the same end member.

Al Qaeda is fighting for a righteous world in submission to God - in their mind they are in the right.

Terrorists are mindlessly evil when you have politicians who have to insist that Islam is the religion of peace and dissociate religion at every freaking turn (including GWB a lot). They are not mindlessly evil - they are religiously evil, and thats a mirror to believers who will cut slack for what is more or less the same basic belief system.

9/11 was a faith based initiative.
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Al Qaeda is fighting for a righteous world in submission to God - in their mind they are in the right.
Well that sounds awfully familiar, but replace Al Qaeda with "we" and put a Texan twang on it.


Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
9/11 was a faith based initiative.
If that were true the targets would have been faith-based.

The goal is power and control, the mechanism is religion...and so far it's working...what began as a War on Terror is becoming a War on Islam.
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:23 PM   #24
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With all the talk of the American right being fascist, one can't lose the fact that the mindset behind Islamic fundamentalism (which doesn't represent the majority of Arabs in this or other countries) hews pretty darn closely to a fascist one itself. Racial purity, religious intolerance, etc etc...

Alan Moore put it succinctly: "I didn't tell people what to think. I just tried to tell them to think." Such nuance is lost in the film. If V is an anarchist (and his V symbol is really just an inverted anarchy A), then in a world of anarchy, the strong survive, which leads to exactly the world V is fighting against. So is V himself fascist?

All of this makes the point of "V" (the film) murky at best.
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977

Alan Moore put it succinctly: "I didn't tell people what to think. I just tried to tell them to think." Such nuance is lost in the film.
Such nuance is lost on the most of the audience. Same can be said of the top films of 2005 in particular the Oscar best picture.
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:41 PM   #26
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Star Wars is pro terrorist too!
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:26 PM   #27
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Natalie Portman hates Freedom!
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iskra
Star Wars is pro terrorist too!


the Ewoks were the greatest cinematic tribute the Viet Cong ever got.
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Old 03-22-2006, 11:33 PM   #29
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I've seen the movie. It's bloody gory...maybe a bit too much. It will make you think, however...which is a good thing. I kept thinking about how someone like Bono would view this film, because it poses a few muddied questions that are difficult to take on.
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Old 03-23-2006, 04:24 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by UberBeaver
Natalie Portman hates Freedom!
Strikes me as anti-idiotarian after reading "Israeli Diversity Shown Even Among Leaders" by Natalie Hershlag.

I do get the sarc though
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