US Presidential Election XII

[Dfit00]

My point is the fact that the scope of legal immigration is so complex, restrictive and inaccessible to the point that immigrating "legally" and following the rules is out of the question.

Hence, the pathways to legal immigration cause the exploitation of the system itself which motivates immigrants to break the law to be within the law or within a "legal" status. This is the main reason of why the system is broken and why the privilege of immigrating legally does not necessarily go to those who need it the most, but rather to those willing to circumvent the law and pay its black market structure.

 

[martha]

My point is the fact that the scope of legal immigration is so complex, restrictive and inaccessible to the point that immigrating "legally" and following the rules is out of the question.

Really? And you know this how?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Donald Trump paid the IRS a $2,500 penalty this year, an official at Trump's company said, after it was revealed that Trump's charitable foundation had violated tax laws by giving a political contribution to a campaign group connected to Florida's attorney general.

The improper donation, a $25,000 gift from the Donald J. Trump Foundation, was made in 2013. At the time, Attorney General Pam Bondi was considering whether to investigate fraud allegations against Trump University. She decided not to pursue the case.

Awaiting the outrage from our GOP voters...

Waiting...

Waiting...

 

[BEAL]

Crooked Donald


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[martha]

If he'd emailed someone about it, then you'd have a real reason to say something.


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[Hewson]

So will Roger Goodell suspend Hillary for 4 games?

 

[Dfit00]

Really? And you know this how?

 

[DaveC]

the timeframes on that thing are absolute bullshit.

 

[bono_212]

Just because you want something to be bullshit doesn't mean it is. It takes a LONG fucking time to become a citizen in the US for some people.

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[trojanchick99]

Hillary has consumption?

 

[corianderstem]

Hillary's got the black lung, pop. *cough cough*

 

[martha]

Get the flashlight!


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[deep]

toxoplasmosis

 

[DaveC]

Just because you want something to be bullshit doesn't mean it is. It takes a LONG fucking time to become a citizen in the US for some people.

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i know people who have emigrated to the United States from here that didn't have to wait anywhere near that long, and they didn't have American relatives nor were they rich. they mainly just worked hard, focused on a plan and got good jobs down there.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

i know people who have emigrated to the United States from here that didn't have to wait anywhere near that long, and they didn't have American relatives nor were they rich. they mainly just worked hard, focused on a plan and got good jobs down there.

When comparing Canadians to other immigrants in the United States, Canadians are at a considerable advantage. Even if we are just talking about the ability to get a green card and be a hard worker. The language is the same. The dialect is the same. The society is the same. The culture is virtually the same.

More specifically, there's simply much easier access to the US for a Canadian. No entry visa requirements. Relaxed border security. Pre-flight customs clearance.

Canadians are allowed temporary stay without consular approval. They're granted special work visas... small aside but the same special work visas Mexicans can get as North Americans...

And even for Canadians, it's still not simple. The very reason I'm born in the United States and not Canada is because my illegal Canadian immigrant father couldn't get his job legally. Why leave Canada? Saskatchewan is cold as fuck. My aunt came in from Canada around 2000 or so. She's still not a citizen. My cousin, her son, came when he was 10. He just got his citizenship.

Mind you, my dad is a doctor and my aunt is a pharmacist. I could see how this process is exceedingly more difficult for technically unskilled workers from countries not named Canada, given how uneasy their paths to citizenship were/have been.

 

[Popmartijn]

Just because you want something to be bullshit doesn't mean it is. It takes a LONG fucking time to become a citizen in the US for some people.

That might be. But that doesn't mean automatically that legal immigration is almost impossible. To me, legal immigration is not the same as becoming a citizen. It is about being able to legally stay in a country (and work) for a long/indefinite time. And yes, even then there will be restrictions (as in needing permits, job, etc.).

 

[Axver]

I do love that at the same time as we are trying to make movement of goods as unrestricted as possible, the limitations on human movement are becoming more and more severe.

 

[bono_212]

i know people who have emigrated to the United States from here that didn't have to wait anywhere near that long, and they didn't have American relatives nor were they rich. they mainly just worked hard, focused on a plan and got good jobs down there.

What LN7 said. There are limits per country, for one thing, and while there are over a million people waiting on the list from Mexico, Canada doesn't even show up in the mid ten thousands of people:

Mexico
1,344,429
Philippines
417,511
India
344,208
Vietnam
282,375
China
-
mainland born
260,265
Dominican Republic
207,406
Bangladesh
183,159
Pakistan
131,465
Haiti
119,696
Cuba
115,208
El Salvador
82,045
Jamaica
58,368
Iran
53,306
Korea, South
52,887
Peru
51,772
All Others
851,921

 

[Oregoropa]

Hillary's got the black lung, pop. *cough cough*

Conspiracy !!!


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[DaveC]

absolutely it takes a long time and you're right canadians have a definite advantage, i won't deny that and that's not my point here either. dfit00 seems to be saying that it's virtually impossible to immigrate legally to the united states, and provided a "source" that i'm just saying is highly exaggerated at best.

 

[anitram]

What LN7 said. There are limits per country, for one thing, and while there are over a million people waiting on the list from Mexico, Canada doesn't even show up in the mid ten thousands of people:

The Canadian numbers are lower than Mexico's for sure but they are nowhere near as low as that number suggests. You are only looking at the wait lists for immigration visas. Most Canadians don't migrate to the US that way. Instead they will arrive on one of a number of available worker/employment visas (whether immigration or non-immigration) and then apply for PR after some time if they are in fact interested in that.

I went through this process some years ago - didn't stay in the US though - and I can tell you that out of the dozens of Canadians I met and socialized with, not a single one came to the US off that immigration wait list you were looking at.

 

[corianderstem]

Conspiracy !!!

No, just random Zoolander references.

 

[namkcuR]

I actually wrote a post about this immigration topic on another forum recently.

It is very difficult for unskilled, uneducated people with no familial connections to be here legally. Now, we should understand that citizenship is different from legal resident status. Legal resident status is what a green card gets you, what enables you to be here legally. Once you've been a legal resident for five or more years, then you can take the civics/social studies test(the one that probably a troubling percentage of natural citizens couldn't pass) to be a citizen. So far as I can, see the only things that citizenship gives you that you wouldn't already have as a legal resident, are the right to vote in elections, and the right to not be deported if you're convicted of a felony.

The point being that timelines for citizenship would all have to take into consideration the mandatory five year wait(and surely some would wait longer than that) after attaining a green card, which itself can be a years-long process.

Getting a green card not only can take a while, it is expensive. The mandatory fees alone can be in excess of $1000, and that doesn't take into consideration the cost of a medical examination if you need one, and the legal fees if you need a lawyer to help you navigate the process.

And as has been mentioned, you need a sponsor too. Employer or family. This is why green card marriages are a thing, and why such couples have to endure the interviews where someone attempts to verify that you're legit.

Look, there's an argument to be made that the legal immigration system has to be difficult and restrictive because if we made it really easy to be legal, there would be more people in the world from poor countries who would want to come here than we would have the resources to accommodate.

I think that there is some truth to that argument. My problem is that politicians aren't honest about the reality of the whole thing. Conservatives who are against amnesty always say, 'but we like legal immigration, our arms are open'. Politicians of all stripes like to pretend that our immigration system is still in line with this:

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

But it's not. The reality is for decades now the system has been designed to make it more difficult for the poor and uneducated to come here, and easier for the educated, skilled, and connected to come here.

I just wish politicians would be honest about that, about the fact that it's actually not so easy for the types of immigrants who come here illegally to be here legally. And also that we would do what we can to make it easier without opening the gates to such an extent that the number of incoming immigrants would exceed our ability to accommodate them.

 

[Bluer White]

Very well said, namkcuR

 

[Oregoropa]

Very well said, namkcuR

I second


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[BigMacPhisto]

Hypothetically speaking...

Let's say the third party share of the vote stays about the same as what we've seen in polling, ending up being around 10-15% of the electorate and preventing Trump or Clinton from reaching 50% of the popular vote.

Are the Clinton backers from the primaries seriously going to suggest if she loses that she was the Democrats' best shot? Or that she would have been a stronger choice than Bernie or Biden?

And I'm not bringing this up to open a can of worms or compare her to other candidates, but when you have a nominee as historically unlikable as Trump, and who would have to win the election with under 50% of the vote, it's clear that the argument can't be made that he's some truly strong candidate.

In fact, FiveThirtyEight argued today that two separate models of the economy would give the Democrat or Republican a slight edge depending on the model. In other words, Trump is trailing a generic Republican that would be slightly leading or barely behind at this point (for example, a Marco Rubio that wins the primaries would surely be leading Clinton in the polls right now given what we saw earlier in the year).

So, taking all of that into consideration, you're looking at a very flawed candidate in Hillary Clinton. And no, I'm not referring to her stances, personable issues, etc. I'm talking about her electability which is clearly terrible if she's been losing ground for the last month to Donald Trump of all people in spite of her built-in demographic and financial advantage.

So, maybe, just maybe, next time when some condescending assholes act like they know a thing or two about who has the best chance of beating the Republican nominee despite all the polling saying otherwise, we can call them out on their bullshit without even a need for a discussion. If Hillary Clinton somehow loses to Donald fucking Trump, every single one of her primary voters owes the rest of America a big apology.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Shit! I should have voted for Bernie afterall!

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Well, you get what you knew at the time of purchase. Clinton had unfavorables then and she has high unfavorables now. Why did people expect something to change the second she became the nominee?

But no, she's our best hope because she's the most famous! That's the same reason Republicans are stuck with The Donald.

 

[BVS]

Hypothetically speaking...

Let's say the third party share of the vote stays about the same as what we've seen in polling, ending up being around 10-15% of the electorate and preventing Trump or Clinton from reaching 50% of the popular vote.

Are the Clinton backers from the primaries seriously going to suggest if she loses that she was the Democrats' best shot? Or that she would have been a stronger choice than Bernie or Biden?

Bernie? Yes
Biden? Probably not, but he wasn't ready at the time.


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[BigMacPhisto]

So, the American people hearing the word "Socialist" bandied about would have sunk his numbers lower than Clinton's? Really? Clinton's numbers were garbage during the primaries and they're garbage now, why would you not think Sanders would have been able to keep up his? It's not like Clinton is really getting attacked by a major ad blitz or anything - people just don't like her.

Biden's choice had nothing to do with being ready. He didn't have a prayer once Bernie became a big thing and polling proved that time and again which is why he admitted he didn't join the race in the first place.

Now, the sad part is that Clinton supporters all would have been way better off with Biden. You'd have somebody in the same range politically with hardly any of the baggage. But they weren't willing to compromise on the dream of electing the first female President because it was her turn.