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Old 08-25-2016, 07:35 PM   #676
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There are also those that suggest that a minimum wage increase of this kind of magnitude can't happen in a vacuum. That if you raise the minimum wage to $15/hr or whatever, than people in non-minimum-wage jobs who are making the annual salary equivalent of $15/hr for doing harder or more challenging jobs that required more education will want their pay raised as well because why should they do a harder job for the same thing the minimum-wagers are making? And then the people on the next tier up will say the same, and so on. Essentially, it's a theory that raising the minimum wage to a livable wage, and making it so there's no full-time job that you can work and still be below the poverty line, will force wage increases across the board.



It's just a theory though, I'm no economic expert so I can't speak to the validity of it. It makes sense though.


This is true. I can't imagine what my program's labor vs revenue would look like. Definitely not as peachy as it does today.


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Old 08-25-2016, 08:13 PM   #677
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So then the alternative is... do nothing?
the alternative is to do something like provide a minimum income so that there is a bit of a cushion for people when it happens. a $15 minimum wage is useless if there are no minimum wage jobs. a $1000 minimum guaranteed income is highly useful for the people who lose those minimum wage jobs as the economy adapts.
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Old 08-25-2016, 09:44 PM   #678
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Prices raises aren't an issue with minimum wage increases. All you have to do is index the wage to inflation via the consumer price index and you're good to go. The buying power for the minimum wage than stays relatively unchanged from year-to-year.


Sounds so simple, right? Except very few economists believe this.

Please show me how you've come up with this "good to go" solution?


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Old 08-25-2016, 11:03 PM   #679
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. Technically, where they should be going is a city with a high minimum wage where they can commute to work for (like SF) and still be able to afford rent in the surrounding area. $100 a month for rent sounds good in the middle of the country until you realize you don't have a job to even earn that $100.
Spoken like someone who's never had a real commute to work.




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Sounds so simple, right? Except very few economists believe this.

Please show me how you've come up with this "good to go" solution?
Right? Apparently it's just so simple.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:18 PM   #680
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Old 08-26-2016, 12:42 AM   #681
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Sounds so simple, right? Except very few economists believe this.

Please show me how you've come up with this "good to go" solution?
What are you on? Cities such as San Francisco have been doing this for years. It works just fine. There's an annual increase based on the CPI. It's not rocket science. You're attacking something that's already been put into practice just fine.
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Old 08-26-2016, 12:43 AM   #682
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Spoken like someone who's never had a real commute to work.
My girlfriend and I each commute over an hour to San Francisco, so there's that.
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Old 08-26-2016, 12:46 AM   #683
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the alternative is to do something like provide a minimum income so that there is a bit of a cushion for people when it happens. a $15 minimum wage is useless if there are no minimum wage jobs. a $1000 minimum guaranteed income is highly useful for the people who lose those minimum wage jobs as the economy adapts.
I see what you're getting at and I feel the same way. We aren't there yet, but it's about to happen real soon. A minimum income is the only solution because there just are not going to be enough jobs around once automation takes over, not to mention that jobs themselves will disappear if productivity continues to rise.

There aren't really enough jobs now when you count the insane amount of temp workers in America and the undermployment rate being at like 20% and higher all the damn time or something like 70% of urban black men being unemployed. We already live in a dog-eat-dog world where employers have the immense advantage such as utilizing credit checks or making it hard for anybody to outright quit a job because it's multiple times harder to get one when you're unemployed, etc.

Basically, we're already having people suffer and dishing out welfare benefits to people that get no or a low amount of hours. That really isn't any different from a minimum income.

It was a different world decades ago where lots of people didn't have a high school diploma and you could get paid the minimum wage to literally just sweep up hair at a barber shop. Education and productivity have gone up hand-in-hand since then and workers have gained nothing to show for it. Harder jobs with less pay.
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Old 08-26-2016, 12:51 AM   #684
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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
That if you raise the minimum wage to $15/hr or whatever, than people in non-minimum-wage jobs who are making the annual salary equivalent of $15/hr for doing harder or more challenging jobs that required more education will want their pay raised as well because why should they do a harder job for the same thing the minimum-wagers are making?
Sure, but I don't really understand the problem here. If you're making $20 an hour at an office job and now the guy at Burger King is suddenly making $15 an hour, you're still making more money at that office job. Getting a raise will depend on how your employer feels about the situation.

If there actually is a lack of people wanting to work because they're suddenly barely making more than the burger flipper, then the employer will raise the wages. But that's unlikely given how things actually work in our economy. So, you can either keep what you're earning or let somebody else take your place which is how the world works with expendable workers and an unemployment level constantly at 5% and an underemployment level that is beyond woeful.

On a personal level, I do think your average American cares about prestige. They don't want to buy a used car that's dented, for example, even if there's a nice discount. So if stressing the fuck out for two dollars more an hour than the burger flipper is an option, I think most of these people will still do it. It's kind of a soulless way to live your life and depressing, but there's no doubt in my mind that's what could happen. Again, nobody is forcing you to work a certain job.

I personally think the problem has lied at the bottom of the pyramid in terms of compensation and the people at wages below $15 or those hovering just above it are the ones that will get a boost from all of this. If you're making $40 an hour, you shouldn't expect jack shit from your boss just because the federal minimum is now $15. You're well compensated already and the problem isn't that everybody isn't being compensated fairly or that you need to always have the same amount of money more than whatever the federal minimum happens to be. Honestly, that's a shitty way to live your life to start whining that you need even more than $40 an hour because you're annoyed that the burger flipper now gets $15. People seem perfectly fine in Socialist-leaning European countries with a smaller divide between rich and poor and they hypothetically do have a much closer gap between their entry level jobs and careers.

If flipping burgers for the same or less were really more appealing, then we'll start seeing people jump ship. I don't think that will actually happen. San Francisco office workers will probably be expected to get $20 starting everywhere by the time $15 minimum rolls around in 2018, etc.. Plus a lot of places would have a bunch of extra income flow thanks to the higher minimum wage floor which in turn could lift wages.
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Old 08-26-2016, 01:03 AM   #685
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This is true. I can't imagine what my program's labor vs revenue would look like. Definitely not as peachy as it does today.
Which essentially means you aren't paying your workers enough and could afford to do better. Of course, all profit happens to be unpaid wages.
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Old 08-26-2016, 06:05 AM   #686
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Which essentially means you aren't paying your workers enough and could afford to do better. Of course, all profit happens to be unpaid wages.


No.


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Old 08-26-2016, 06:08 AM   #687
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What are you on? Cities such as San Francisco have been doing this for years. It works just fine. There's an annual increase based on the CPI. It's not rocket science. You're attacking something that's already been put into practice just fine.

You've never taken an economics class in your life have you?!San Fransisco already has one of the highest costs of living, so you couldn't even begin to use it as an example. You really don't understand what you're talking about.


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Old 08-26-2016, 07:46 AM   #688
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Just want to reiterate I'm not against raising, I'm just against a flat raise.

I worked so hard to get to 15 and to be honest if I could move back to Indiana and make 15 again working at the grocery store, I'd be tempted to. It would be a lot less stressful than my life is in Los Angeles making a little more than that was.

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Old 08-26-2016, 07:55 AM   #689
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Old 08-26-2016, 08:08 AM   #690
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My girlfriend and I each commute over an hour to San Francisco, so there's that.
How long have you been doing it. This is a serious question, I'm not trying to screw with you. I've had at least a thirty minute commute for 4 of the 5 years I've been married. Now my commute is an hour one way and half an hour back. It absolutely takes its toll on my marriage. But can I move closer to work? Of course not because the cost of living in Los Angeles is absurd.

Anyways, just my two cents that suggesting people should just spend their lives driving so they can afford a home sounds awful.
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