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Old 07-27-2015, 01:07 AM   #961
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:38 AM   #962
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:39 AM   #963
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I have a few right wing friends on Facebook. They, and the people who comment on their posts, really do exist in a totally different reality than the rest of us. A reality where they"mainstream media" is lies, and conspiracy theories are embraced and facts that they dislike are dismissed as being media-created pieces of the "narrative" that the powers-that-be fashion to further their own interests.

I've also seen some of this on the Left. Talk about how "the bankers" control everything, how Iranian state run media gives us the real truth about the Palestinians, etc.

It's amazing. I think we have a touch of that here.
First of all, most right wing alternative media is nonsense and propaganda. But it's a false equivalence to say that most left wing media is as well. And there are stories the mainstream media avoids. How honest do you think the mainstream media is as the beneficiary of a corrupt electoral / political system that allows billions of dollars to be spent during an election? All of that money ends up in their hands - they are not going to upset the apple cart.

A mainstream media that treats elections as sport and always try to keep it a horse race?

MOST of what the left wing media does is call out the bull shit that the right wing in this country gets away with - because they are absolutely insane yet the mainstream media treats Republicans as though they are a legitimate and reasonable political party.

Do you think it's right that corporations / business / banks write legislation for reps and senators to vote on?

I'm too tired to get into this now - but it's absurd to compare the right to the left.

If you think centrists / moderates are going to fairly fix over 30 years of right wing damage then I'm not the one that is into conspiracies and delusional nonsense, you are.

Everything has been pulled so far to the right that it would require a lot to get us back to the true middle - a pull from the "far left" not a pull from the middle.

I'll use one example:

They have been STEALING from Social Security for 30+ years because they gave HUGE tax breaks to rich people and corporations and needed more money, but both Republicans AND so called moderates would love to bury that fact and tell you that Social Security is bankrupt and needs to be reduced. That's crap.
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:45 AM   #964
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The BVS's of the United States?
Yeah, all of the people that refuse to vote for the right guy out of fear he can't win but will hop on the bandwagon once it seems safe to - after all of the heavy lifting is done.

These people are needed now.

And if you don't fine; just understand that with Hillary you are getting a Republican like Nixon at a time when we really could use a guy like FDR to get us on the right course again.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:07 AM   #965
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First of all, most right wing alternative media is nonsense and propaganda. But it's a false equivalence to say that most left wing media is as well. And there are stories the mainstream media avoids. How honest do you think the mainstream media is as the beneficiary of a corrupt electoral / political system that allows billions of dollars to be spent during an election? All of that money ends up in their hands - they are not going to upset the apple cart.

A mainstream media that treats elections as sport and always try to keep it a horse race?

MOST of what the left wing media does is call out the bull shit that the right wing in this country gets away with - because they are absolutely insane yet the mainstream media treats Republicans as though they are a legitimate and reasonable political party.

Do you think it's right that corporations / business / banks write legislation for reps and senators to vote on?

I'm too tired to get into this now - but it's absurd to compare the right to the left.

If you think centrists / moderates are going to fairly fix over 30 years of right wing damage then I'm not the one that is into conspiracies and delusional nonsense, you are.

Everything has been pulled so far to the right that it would require a lot to get us back to the true middle - a pull from the "far left" not a pull from the middle.

I'll use one example:

They have been STEALING from Social Security for 30+ years because they gave HUGE tax breaks to rich people and corporations and needed more money, but both Republicans AND so called moderates would love to bury that fact and tell you that Social Security is bankrupt and needs to be reduced. That's crap.

Every single thing you state here(word for word) is echoed very loudly about the country's left by the right. Legitimacy is not brought on by echo chambers. In fact they end up creating groups of people who have their heads buried in the sand.


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Old 07-27-2015, 07:13 AM   #966
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Yeah, all of the people that refuse to vote for the right guy out of fear he can't win but will hop on the bandwagon once it seems safe to - after all of the heavy lifting is done.



You know what people say about assumptions right?

It's telling when someone has to start attacking just for asking tough questions.


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Old 07-27-2015, 07:16 AM   #967
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What the hell is going on?
apparently the crazy bird has two wings
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:50 AM   #968
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:24 AM   #969
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Anyone that believes that media from the perspective of the left is no better than media from the perspective of the right is delusional and / or is not too informed.

As I said, the right makes up crazy shit and pushes for terrible legislation and the left is there to point out their bull shit - because the mainstream media has their own incentives and won't call them out on it.

Just because kooks on the right have delusions about people on the left it does not make them right or the left wrong.

Getting back to my original point, this country has REAL problems which aren't going to be fixed by the right or the so called middle. Mark my words. Most of our massive problems will cost money, and the right and the middle won't demand it of the "haves". That leaves it to the liberals in this country to demand it, as it has ALWAYS been.

Now carry on with whatever nonsense point you want to make about Bernie being unelectable or how the left and it's media is as bad as the right and it's media.

I tell you what - go listen to Mark Levin for a month and then go listen to Thom Hartmann for a month and then come back here and tell me how the left is as bad as the right.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:55 AM   #970
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Anyone that believes that media from the perspective of the left is no better than media from the perspective of the right is delusional and / or is not too informed.

So because I don't want media to have a right or left perspective(or in other words; agenda) that makes me delusional or uninformed? That makes no sense.

Do you really want a left version of Glenn Beck or Fox News? Think about that. This type of agenda driven media creates a certain type of audience; one that stops fact checking and believes what they're fed. We need to put an end to this type of media, not add more. I don't care if it's left, right, religious, etc. it's dangerous.


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Old 07-27-2015, 09:01 AM   #971
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Old 07-27-2015, 09:25 AM   #972
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So because I don't want media to have a right or left perspective(or in other words; agenda) that makes me delusional or uninformed? That makes no sense.

Do you really want a left version of Glenn Beck or Fox News? Think about that. This type of agenda driven media creates a certain type of audience; one that stops fact checking and believes what they're fed. We need to put an end to this type of media, not add more. I don't care if it's left, right, religious, etc. it's dangerous.


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MY POINT is that journalism / media on the left is where you can get truthful, reality-based information that you will not get from the mainstream media or especially, the kooky right wing media.

Is Thom Hartmann, Amy Goodman or Matt Taibbi the left's equivalent of Glenn Beck? That's ridiculous.

The 3 I mentioned are much closer to Edward R Murrow or Walter Cronkite than Glen Beck is.

You are not going to get truthful hard hitting journalism from the so called mainstream media ("the middle") because the middle has been corrupted. They are not going to address issues that will either directly or indirectly have an adverse effect on their bottom line.

What you are saying reminds me of the people pointing out that Bernie Sanders is a socialist while ignoring the fact that on most issues the American people agree with Bernie.

The so called middle is not the middle any more because of how successful the right has been at pulling us to the right. We are in dire need of a goal post / 50 yard line correction.
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Old 07-27-2015, 09:59 AM   #973
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apparently the crazy bird has two wings
It seems that way.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:02 AM   #974
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Getting back to my original point, this country has REAL problems which aren't going to be fixed by the right or the so called middle. Mark my words. Most of our massive problems will cost money, and the right and the middle won't demand it of the "haves". That leaves it to the liberals in this country to demand it, as it has ALWAYS been.
My God, this is revolutionary! I hadn't thought of it this way! A few sentences, written in generalizations, rather than specific, factual examples, and I'm convinced!
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:04 AM   #975
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Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post
First of all, most right wing alternative media is nonsense and propaganda. But it's a false equivalence to say that most left wing media is as well. And there are stories the mainstream media avoids. How honest do you think the mainstream media is as the beneficiary of a corrupt electoral / political system that allows billions of dollars to be spent during an election? All of that money ends up in their hands - they are not going to upset the apple cart.

A mainstream media that treats elections as sport and always try to keep it a horse race?

MOST of what the left wing media does is call out the bull shit that the right wing in this country gets away with - because they are absolutely insane yet the mainstream media treats Republicans as though they are a legitimate and reasonable political party.

Do you think it's right that corporations / business / banks write legislation for reps and senators to vote on?

I'm too tired to get into this now - but it's absurd to compare the right to the left.

If you think centrists / moderates are going to fairly fix over 30 years of right wing damage then I'm not the one that is into conspiracies and delusional nonsense, you are.

Everything has been pulled so far to the right that it would require a lot to get us back to the true middle - a pull from the "far left" not a pull from the middle.

I'll use one example:

They have been STEALING from Social Security for 30+ years because they gave HUGE tax breaks to rich people and corporations and needed more money, but both Republicans AND so called moderates would love to bury that fact and tell you that Social Security is bankrupt and needs to be reduced. That's crap.



I agree with a lot of what you are saying. A lot.

But. Don't think that left wing media doesn't operate in the same way that right wing media does -- giving its audience what it wants to hear. I agree, wholeheartedly, that there's a difference of degree between left and right media, and I think the right is organized in a way the left isn't.

But, and I think your posts give us an example of this, if you only get your media from one place, and if you actively distrust MSM sources (which, for all their faults, still do a pretty good job) you tend to get very flat, black-and-white, unnuanced opinions and viewpoints. It's unhealthy to automatically disqualify, say, PBS or the NYT or CNN simply because it's mainstream. I agree that these institutions need to be checked and held accountable and they have limitations and qualifications, but dismissing them wholesale is silly, and something right wing media has been hard at work at since the early 1990s. What they want is to get their consumers to a point where an entirely new reality can be created, and actual facts can be dismissed, if these facts don't fit in to the narrative. It's cultish.
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