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Old 07-26-2015, 10:38 AM   #931
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If we want to keep arch conservatives off the Supreme Court and not get ourselves into any more stupid wars in the Middle East (or elsewhere) we need a Democrat who can win. Winning is everything.

So far, Sanders has not shown he can reach out and speak to blacks and Hispanics and get them to turn out on Election Day. Democrats need those votes to win, just as the GOP needs evangelicals to win. We know the Clinton machine can turn them out. Bernie may prove he can do this, and that would be great. But so far, while I understand his great appeal, he seems like a familiar white progressive candidate who progressive whites get excited about early in the primaries (Bill Bradley, Howard Dean) but who can't perform when it comes down to getting votes.

As of today, I would choose HRC over Sanders for this reason, even if I might prefer many of Bernie's actual positions and policies.


This sums it up for me as well.



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Old 07-26-2015, 10:40 AM   #932
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That is what you call a self-fulfilling prophecy - liking Sanders, preferring Sanders, but voting for Clinton because you don't think people will vote for Sanders.

People need to get their shit together - Bernie Sanders is REAL. There is ZERO BS there. He will DEMAND things of Congress that corrupt / bought off presidents won't.

Bernie would be the best choice for blacks and Hispanics...for all of us.

The American people need to get it together.

I think they will learn more about him as this thing closes in - I think Bernie's numbers are better now than Obama's were at this time in 2007.

PS - Bernie's no bull style gets him quite a few Republican / conservative votes...and I heard he is doing better than Hillary in swing states - the few states that decide who wins.

We need to make him our candidate in the primaries - then fall back on Hillary for the general if the American people fail to recognize a good decent candidate when they see one.
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Old 07-26-2015, 02:21 PM   #933
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That is what you call a self-fulfilling prophecy - liking Sanders, preferring Sanders, but voting for Clinton because you don't think people will vote for Sanders.

People need to get their shit together - Bernie Sanders is REAL. There is ZERO BS there. He will DEMAND things of Congress that corrupt / bought off presidents won't.

Bernie would be the best choice for blacks and Hispanics...for all of us.

The American people need to get it together.

I think they will learn more about him as this thing closes in - I think Bernie's numbers are better now than Obama's were at this time in 2007.

PS - Bernie's no bull style gets him quite a few Republican / conservative votes...and I heard he is doing better than Hillary in swing states - the few states that decide who wins.

We need to make him our candidate in the primaries - then fall back on Hillary for the general if the American people fail to recognize a good decent candidate when they see one.


I've seen this movie before, when it was called Bill Bradley. And the sequel when it was called Howard Dean. All were remakes of the 1972 movie George McGovern.

The Obama 2008 campaign was a potentially once-in-a-lifetime political phenomenon, and he just barely beat Clinton in the primaries.

I'm glad you like Bernie. I like him too. But I'm not convinced he can pull the turnout necessary to win the White House. Yet.

Turnout, turnout, turnout. That's how it's done. I'm a gay white progressive living in a major city. My vote is guaranteed. It's not me I'm worried about. It's if the not-Republican candidate can get people who are different from me to vote for them. That's part of what the concern is -- it doesn't matter if Bernie has better policies; he has to get elected.
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Old 07-26-2015, 02:53 PM   #934
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He will DEMAND things of Congress that corrupt / bought off presidents won't.

I would love to know how this works in real life.


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Old 07-26-2015, 03:11 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
If we want to keep arch conservatives off the Supreme Court and not get ourselves into any more stupid wars in the Middle East (or elsewhere) we need a Democrat who can win. Winning is everything.

So far, Sanders has not shown he can reach out and speak to blacks and Hispanics and get them to turn out on Election Day. Democrats need those votes to win, just as the GOP needs evangelicals to win. We know the Clinton machine can turn them out. Bernie may prove he can do this, and that would be great. But so far, while I understand his great appeal, he seems like a familiar white progressive candidate who progressive whites get excited about early in the primaries (Bill Bradley, Howard Dean) but who can't perform when it comes down to getting votes.

As of today, I would choose HRC over Sanders for this reason, even if I might prefer many of Bernie's actual positions and policies.


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This sums it up for me as well.



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And my axe... Er... Vote.

I like Bernie. I loved Howard Dean. One public gaffe like Dean's and you already know what's going to happen...

And it just so happens that Bernie has an incredibly cringe-worthy folk album from the 80s that might just do it.
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Old 07-26-2015, 04:57 PM   #936
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Thing is Bernie is for real, and people come away STRONGLY supporting him after listening to him.

And how many 10,000 people rallies did Howard Dean have at this stage of the game?

And how many people wished they did not quit on Dean because of a stupid scream?

As I said before it's time for the American people to stop being children.

Bernie is the ONLY "different kind of candidate" - the only candidate willing to overturn the money changers tables.

Yes, the electorate is stupid. It's way past time they stop being stupid.
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:00 PM   #937
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I like Bernie. I loved Howard Dean. One public gaffe like Dean's and you already know what's going to happen...

And it just so happens that Bernie has an incredibly cringe-worthy folk album from the 80s that might just do it.
And if the American people are willing to elect a Scott Walker over Bernie Sanders bad folk album than they deserve Scott Walker policy.

If people don't recognize a teeth kicking machine for a teeth kicking machine, then a good kick in the teeth ought to wake them up finally.
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:21 PM   #938
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Thing is Bernie is for real, and people come away STRONGLY supporting him after listening to him.

And how many 10,000 people rallies did Howard Dean have at this stage of the game?

And how many people wished they did not quit on Dean because of a stupid scream?

As I said before it's time for the American people to stop being children.

Bernie is the ONLY "different kind of candidate" - the only candidate willing to overturn the money changers tables.

Yes, the electorate is stupid. It's way past time they stop being stupid.


He's also not Santa Claus.
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:32 PM   #939
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Thing is Bernie is for real, and people come away STRONGLY supporting him after listening to him.

And how many 10,000 people rallies did Howard Dean have at this stage of the game?

And how many people wished they did not quit on Dean because of a stupid scream?

As I said before it's time for the American people to stop being children.

Bernie is the ONLY "different kind of candidate" - the only candidate willing to overturn the money changers tables.

Yes, the electorate is stupid. It's way past time they stop being stupid.

I admire your optimism. But instead of repeating yourself over and with the "Bernie is REAL", because honestly that doesn't mean or say much these days, Trump's supporters think he's "real".

Let's discuss the two biggest obstacles to your plight.

ONE: how do you suggest he gets elected? No generalities, I'm honestly curious as to how you believe he'll break ALL precedent and win over the big names and money? Specifics.

TWO: how do you honestly see Bernie turning over the tables? Any president, no matter what side of the aisle has to work within the system, and those that plan on getting anything done have to compromise, and as we've seen with Obama, even when trying to work within the system the others will do everything to block or say 'no' even at the cost of the American people.

I'm not suggesting settling or rolling over to the system, but I am saying even if Sanders did win don't expect the tables to be fully turned over. You sound a little bit like the Obama/ messiah voters that the Tea Party folks tried to create, and I think you're going to have to introduce a little more reality if you really want to further his cause.

If you can find a realistic way of getting him the votes, then I'd vote for him in a second, but as it stands NOW a vote for him is a vote for the R.


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Old 07-26-2015, 05:37 PM   #940
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As long as Scott Walker doesn't win. Seriously has devastated Wisconsin.


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Old 07-26-2015, 05:44 PM   #941
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He scares the hell out of me.
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:50 PM   #942
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Honestly, the majority of this camp scare me. With Mitt, I knew it would be wrong for the country but he didn't scare me per se, but I'm not sure which one of these clowns in the car I'd settle for?


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Old 07-26-2015, 07:28 PM   #943
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First of all, alternative media is overtaking the mainstream media more and more. People have caught on to the system. WHO ELSE is saying that Citizen's United was a horrendous decision and that billionaires and corporations shouldn't be able to choose our president? People are hearing that and the message is resonating. It's up to every one of us, including you - if you like him support him and spread the word.

And a vote for him is NOT a vote for the Republican - this is the primaries. He has no intention of playing spoiler running in a third party.

Finally, Obama gave up saying that Republicans are awful awful awful people - kind of like he was half on their side. Look who supported fast track of the TPP - Obama and a majority of Republicans. Bernie Sanders would not tire of shaming the Republicans and he WOULD ask the American people to deliver senators and representatives that shared his vision. No, he won't be a miracle worker, but I'd much rather have someone fighting to go forward than the status quo (Hillary) and a step backwards (Republicans).

I'm a progressive. I AM more informed than "moderates" (Third Way Dems) and Republicans. We NEED someone like Bernie Sanders if we are going to do anything about our BIG problems. Hillary won't demand anything of corps and millionaires to revive our middle class.

We need a complete change of mindset.

I'm not the kook, I'm just not settling for the status quo until I have no choice. The primaries are ahead of us not behind us. If you like Bernie convince 10 others. Now isn't the time to write him off.
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:43 PM   #944
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Honestly, the majority of this camp scare me. With Mitt, I knew it would be wrong for the country but he didn't scare me per se, but I'm not sure which one of these clowns in the car I'd settle for?


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I made that point when I was roasted for voting third party. Mitt wasn't a lunatic, just a panderer.

I'm much more worried with most of these candidates, Bush aside.
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:52 PM   #945
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First of all, alternative media is overtaking the mainstream media more and more. People have caught on to the system. WHO ELSE is saying that Citizen's United was a horrendous decision and that billionaires and corporations shouldn't be able to choose our president? People are hearing that and the message is resonating. It's up to every one of us, including you - if you like him support him and spread the word.

And a vote for him is NOT a vote for the Republican - this is the primaries. He has no intention of playing spoiler running in a third party.

Finally, Obama gave up saying that Republicans are awful awful awful people - kind of like he was half on their side. Look who supported fast track of the TPP - Obama and a majority of Republicans. Bernie Sanders would not tire of shaming the Republicans and he WOULD ask the American people to deliver senators and representatives that shared his vision. No, he won't be a miracle worker, but I'd much rather have someone fighting to go forward than the status quo (Hillary) and a step backwards (Republicans).

I'm a progressive. I AM more informed than "moderates" (Third Way Dems) and Republicans. We NEED someone like Bernie Sanders if we are going to do anything about our BIG problems. Hillary won't demand anything of corps and millionaires to revive our middle class.

We need a complete change of mindset.

I'm not the kook, I'm just not settling for the status quo until I have no choice. The primaries are ahead of us not behind us. If you like Bernie convince 10 others. Now isn't the time to write him off.

This is nice and all, but none of it is concrete. There were no real answers. Saying "people are catching on" is not a real answer. This is the problem with his campaign.

Be careful about "alternative media". Conservatives are kicking ass in that medium, they are utilizing it much more effective than anyone else, but the problem is they are just preaching to the choir echo chambers. They have now created a constituent that doesn't bother in fact checking and will believe in Muslim drones confiscating guns in Texas.


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