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Old 07-02-2015, 06:45 PM   #781
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Heh.
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:17 PM   #782
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Options: the deal, let Iran do whatever the fuck it wants, or bomb them back to the Stone Age. Which one is the best option?


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There are many military options short of bombing them into the stone age, or in a way going beyond that to invasion and regime removal. There are also economic sanctions, diplomatic sanctions as well.

Despite all that, the deal is probably the best option, at this time, but there are other options.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:10 PM   #783
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There are many military options short of bombing them into the stone age, or in a way going beyond that to invasion and regime removal. There are also economic sanctions, diplomatic sanctions as well.

Despite all that, the deal is probably the best option, at this time, but there are other options.

Yeah, because what the U.S. needs is another ground war in the Middle East. As for sanctions, as far as I know we've pretty much done as much we can in the past. Having no economic activity with them is pretty harsh.


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Old 07-02-2015, 09:27 PM   #784
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Just let Israel do it. They are the ones most under threat. The Sunni Gulf States will give them a flyover corridor (They don't want Iran getting nukes either). Let them knockout the enrichment plants and set their program back years. The world community already dislikes Israel anyway. They're not trying to win a popularity contest.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:27 PM   #785
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They could try the "Homeland" method:

(don't click if you haven't seen season 3)

 
Send in one white guy to somehow kill the President of Iran with his bare hands, then despite the cover of the entire operation being blown within hours, the country will sprout immediately into full-fledged Jeffersonian democracy. Right after they hang the operative from a construction crane.
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Old 07-03-2015, 03:14 AM   #786
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Just let Israel do it. They are the ones most under threat. The Sunni Gulf States will give them a flyover corridor (They don't want Iran getting nukes either). Let them knockout the enrichment plants and set their program back years. The world community already dislikes Israel anyway. They're not trying to win a popularity contest.

Literally all that does is make Iran even determined to defend itself as well as pissing the entire Arab world off, inspiring more terrorism and violence. We should be solving problems through diplomacy, not blowing up everything. If I recall, military action hasn't worked so well in the Middle East.


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Old 07-03-2015, 09:53 AM   #787
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Literally all that does is make Iran even determined to defend itself as well as pissing the entire Arab world off, inspiring more terrorism and violence. We should be solving problems through diplomacy, not blowing up everything. If I recall, military action hasn't worked so well in the Middle East.


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Not to knock Diplomacy down, but military action has actually been very effective in the Middle East compared to Diplomacy.

1948 - Israel saved its existence through military force after being invaded by five Arab countries.
1967 - Israel wins 6 Day war defeating Arab forces before their invasion.
1973 - Israel wins Yom Kipper war defeating Syria and Egyptian forces threatening Israel.
1991 - United States and Coalition Allies defeat Iraq in the 1991 Gulf War removing Iraqi military from Kuwait and liberating the country from its recent annexation and occupation by Iraq.
2001 - U.S. invades Afghanistan and removes the Taliban government there.
2003 - Saddam is removed from power by U.S. led coalition invasion.
2007 - U.S. military surge defeats many insurgents in Iraq and reduces violence throughout the country helping to bring about greater stability.
2011 - U.S. military action kills Bin Ladin in Pakistan

For Diplomacy the only big and decisive success has been the Camp David Accords started in 1978 and leading to the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt in 1979.

The middle east is a rough neighborhood and there is not going to be a diplomatic solution to ISIS and what is left of Al Quada. But Diplomacy could play a key role in ending fighting between certain factions in Syria and getting the Assad regime to step down. Diplomacy could also help put Yemen back together and keep Iraq and Afghanistan from internally splitting apart.
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:49 AM   #788
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Originally Posted by wolf View Post
Not to knock Diplomacy down, but military action has actually been very effective in the Middle East compared to Diplomacy.

1948 - Israel saved its existence through military force after being invaded by five Arab countries.
1967 - Israel wins 6 Day war defeating Arab forces before their invasion.
1973 - Israel wins Yom Kipper war defeating Syria and Egyptian forces threatening Israel.
1991 - United States and Coalition Allies defeat Iraq in the 1991 Gulf War removing Iraqi military from Kuwait and liberating the country from its recent annexation and occupation by Iraq.
2001 - U.S. invades Afghanistan and removes the Taliban government there.
2003 - Saddam is removed from power by U.S. led coalition invasion.
2007 - U.S. military surge defeats many insurgents in Iraq and reduces violence throughout the country helping to bring about greater stability.
2011 - U.S. military action kills Bin Ladin in Pakistan

For Diplomacy the only big and decisive success has been the Camp David Accords started in 1978 and leading to the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt in 1979.

The middle east is a rough neighborhood and there is not going to be a diplomatic solution to ISIS and what is left of Al Quada. But Diplomacy could play a key role in ending fighting between certain factions in Syria and getting the Assad regime to step down. Diplomacy could also help put Yemen back together and keep Iraq and Afghanistan from internally splitting apart.
To be fair, the military action involving the USA in the middle east has been a mixed bag. You are 100% correct though when you say the middle east is a rough neighborhood...im not sure WE belong in that neighborhood unless directly attacked or as an absolute last resort.

The days of bombing entire cities off of the map are no longer an option. While we have the power to do so, we no longer have the will to do so. And im not sure we should be doing such a thing anyway.

For instance:

1991 - United States and Coalition Allies defeat Iraq in the 1991 Gulf War removing Iraqi military from Kuwait and liberating the country from its recent annexation and occupation by Iraq.

This was a success because the goal was achieved rather quickly and without massive human casualties predicted prior to the war.

2001 - U.S. invades Afghanistan and removes the Taliban government there.

This was a success based on how you present it, however, how long will this war/military operations go on and/or why do we still have troops there?

2003 - Saddam is removed from power by U.S. led coalition invasion.

indeed, however;

2007 - U.S. military surge defeats many insurgents in Iraq and reduces violence throughout the country helping to bring about greater stability.

Four years after the removal of Saddam, Iraq was still chaos, hence the surge. In fact Iraq is still a mess today. ISIS or ISIL or whatever would agree, along with hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded troops on either side.

2011 - U.S. military action kills Bin Ladin in Pakistan

success....until proven otherwise
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Old 07-03-2015, 02:40 PM   #789
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Originally Posted by nbelcik View Post
Literally all that does is make Iran even determined to defend itself as well as pissing the entire Arab world off, inspiring more terrorism and violence. We should be solving problems through diplomacy, not blowing up everything. If I recall, military action hasn't worked so well in the Middle East.


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Boom!

Well, not boom boom. But I agree. Useless to fight. You'll suppress them and force them into submission but the minute you leave, they'll want bloodthirsty revenge.

Make the quality of living better and people won't resort to "jihad." It's not as religious of a lifestyle as one might think. Definitely, they're brainwashed, but more often than not its out of hatred for our actions and money when it's offered for a better life.
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Old 07-03-2015, 06:31 PM   #790
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Wait, what's the rush/obsession with bombing Iran?

It's always struck me as strange, this fixation with them as the enemy. Yes, there is history to it (not that they don't have a right to feel aggrieved by US actions over the years, anybody recall the Vincennes blowing some 70 children out of the sky and the US never apologizing?). But in any event, Iran is a vibrant, extremely educated country, one that is actually relatively well positioned to transition to a secular education system (again, historically they have had this), with a highly cultural and young population ready to embrace open relations with the west. I'd take my chances with them anyday over the Saudis.
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:03 AM   #791
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Its not the only option and keeping Saddam in power to oppose Iran would have been as smart as keeping Hitler in power to oppose the Soviet Union.
Yeaaaaaaaaaa that's not really the same thing.
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:29 AM   #792
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:58 AM   #793
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US Presidential Election 2016...because it's never too early

Hillary's list is just insane.
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:22 AM   #794
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It's not all that different from Obama's, if I recall correctly. Just makes all this "march to socialism" nonsense that much more laughable.
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:12 PM   #795
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Fuck Jeb Bush.
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