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Old 05-29-2015, 02:34 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by DaveC View Post


Ridiculous. Take that hyperbolic shit elsewhere, please.
Take your myopic view elsewhere please, that shit does noone any good. Three rolling eyes and a total lack of substance might be good enough for you to feel like a tough guy, but they do nothing for discussion.

Seriously, do you even know what the TPP is? A "trade" deal written entirely by corporate lobbyists and executives behind closed doors (who do you think that will benefit?). Our nations legislator's had no part in writing it, in fact most of them haven't even read it. We wouldn't even know the contents if it weren't for Wikileaks (say what you want about them), because our Congressmen (the ones who actually took the time to read it) aren't allowed to talk about it. Obama and the corporate elite know that the only way to ram this thing through is to hide it from public view and fast track it with no amendments as quickly as possible.

This will be NAFTA x100 if it passes. Tons of people are fighting extremely hard right now to keep this backroom deal from passing and turning the US into a corporate sweatshop. Educate yourself, and get involved, or face the consequences. Our govt. is completely co-opted, not that this is news to anyone.

Do you know what the "Investor State Dispute Resolution" is? Well, it's part of NAFTA, and a part of the TPP. Corporations can sue and overturn democratically enacted US laws if they deem their profits to be affected. Cases are judged by an international tribunal of corporate lawyers (yes you read that correctly) with no chance of US judicial intervention. Even the Supreme Court cannot help us if the ISDR decides they want to do away with our environmental or worker laws.

In fact the ISDR enacted under NAFTA just recently decided they don't like our Country Of Origin Labeling law, which allows us to know where our food comes from. The US is now faced with either drastically changing the law (maybe even repealing it), or face fines to make up for lost corporate profits. In other words, corporation sues us for a law they don't like, the corporate tribunal makes a decision favoring the corporation (of course), and now we either get rid of the law or we face huge fines. Fines which of course will be paid for with taxpayer money. Just another revenue stream for the corporate elite. When is enough enough?

Wake up, seriously.


If you just read CNN, Fox, etc, you are not getting real news. You're getting what the elites want you to see.

One example of a real news site:

NationofChange

Stop Calling the TPP a Trade Agreement—It Isn’t - NationofChange


Give me some real discussion next time. "Hyperbolic" my ass.
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Old 05-29-2015, 02:42 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison View Post
So while i respect what you are saying about Bernie Sanders, i do want to point out that he likely has no chance in hell at getting the nomination. I am glad he is there, but think bigger picture here. If a republican were to be elected in 16, and you decide to stay home instead of vote for Hillary, will you regret your decision in the future? I can only imagine what a republican administration would be like now after 8 years of Obama.
Excellent point. I'm sure I will in fact vote in 2016 even if Bernie is not an option, for this very reason. I am just so frustrated with having 2 options on election day, both "stuffed shirt" corporate sell-outs with no real backbone or moral compass.

I'm sure they are already working hard to marginalize Mr Sanders. And if he gains too much ground they'll probably have him eliminated, in one way or another.

Actually an all repub govt might not be such a bad thing. We've been the proverbial frog in the slowly boiling water since about JFK. Having all R's take over would be like turning the heat up about 100%, and maybe that would get us to jump out of the damn pot.
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Old 05-29-2015, 02:50 PM   #468
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In the United States in the 20th/21st century is there an actual non-crazypants reason to have 19 kids?
Touche.
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Old 05-29-2015, 03:38 PM   #469
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Take your myopic view elsewhere please, that shit does noone any good. Three rolling eyes and a total lack of substance might be good enough for you to feel like a tough guy, but they do nothing for discussion.

Seriously, do you even know what the TPP is? A "trade" deal written entirely by corporate lobbyists and executives behind closed doors (who do you think that will benefit?). Our nations legislator's had no part in writing it, in fact most of them haven't even read it. We wouldn't even know the contents if it weren't for Wikileaks (say what you want about them), because our Congressmen (the ones who actually took the time to read it) aren't allowed to talk about it. Obama and the corporate elite know that the only way to ram this thing through is to hide it from public view and fast track it with no amendments as quickly as possible.

This will be NAFTA x100 if it passes. Tons of people are fighting extremely hard right now to keep this backroom deal from passing and turning the US into a corporate sweatshop. Educate yourself, and get involved, or face the consequences. Our govt. is completely co-opted, not that this is news to anyone.

Do you know what the "Investor State Dispute Resolution" is? Well, it's part of NAFTA, and a part of the TPP. Corporations can sue and overturn democratically enacted US laws if they deem their profits to be affected. Cases are judged by an international tribunal of corporate lawyers (yes you read that correctly) with no chance of US judicial intervention. Even the Supreme Court cannot help us if the ISDR decides they want to do away with our environmental or worker laws.

In fact the ISDR enacted under NAFTA just recently decided they don't like our Country Of Origin Labeling law, which allows us to know where our food comes from. The US is now faced with either drastically changing the law (maybe even repealing it), or face fines to make up for lost corporate profits. In other words, corporation sues us for a law they don't like, the corporate tribunal makes a decision favoring the corporation (of course), and now we either get rid of the law or we face huge fines. Fines which of course will be paid for with taxpayer money. Just another revenue stream for the corporate elite. When is enough enough?

Wake up, seriously.


If you just read CNN, Fox, etc, you are not getting real news. You're getting what the elites want you to see.

One example of a real news site:

NationofChange

Stop Calling the TPP a Trade Agreement—It Isn’t - NationofChange


Give me some real discussion next time. "Hyperbolic" my ass.

How are you still posting if Obama won't let anyone read or talk about it? Shouldn't he have shut you down by now?!


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Old 05-29-2015, 03:53 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by BVS View Post
How are you still posting if Obama won't let anyone read or talk about it? Shouldn't he have shut you down by now?!


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Wow, i think my IQ just dropped 100 points. I guess real debate is a rarity here. Shame on me for trying to bring awareness. In fact you just reminded me why I stopped coming here a couple years ago. Thanks for the refresher.
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Old 05-29-2015, 03:56 PM   #471
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Are they the family that declared themselves a religion to get tax breaks?
Didn't U2 do the same thing?
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Old 05-29-2015, 03:56 PM   #472
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Wow, i think my IQ just dropped 100 points. I guess real debate is a rarity here. Shame on me for trying to bring awareness. In fact you just reminded me why I stopped coming here a couple years ago. Thanks for the refresher.
First, drop the insults. Second, sure, it doesn't help that you're only getting snarky replies, but, despite the extra depth you've given your argument, you've got to admit that "welcome to pure fascism" is just a wee bit hyperbolic.
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Old 05-29-2015, 03:57 PM   #473
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Concerning Jeb Bush, he's 100% running. His Super PAC has already raised around $100 million according to various news reports. His chances of winning the nomination are only getting better as more people jump into the race as the furthest-to-the-right selections will cancel each other out both in votes and in finances, leaving the establishment pick, Bush, to clean house the same way Romney did four years ago.

These eight people have already formally announced their candidacy and/or filed as a candidate with Federal Election Commission (FEC) (for other than exploratory purposes):

Ben Carson
Ted Cruz
Carly Fiorina
Mike Huckabee
George Pataki
Rand Paul
Marco Rubio
Rick Santorum


These two have announcements on the way:

Lindsey Graham (June 1st)
Rick Perry (June 4th)

These are basically running at the moment:

Jeb Bush
Chris Christie
Bobby Jindal
John Kasich
Scott Walker


That's fifteen major candidates already. I can't really blame them as the primary system opens in a couple of small states. Have a bit of luck go your way and you can suddenly be a contender just like Santorum last time.

I think Jindal and Christie will bow out well before things get serious, but you never know. Christie has gained no traction whatsoever lately, nor has he landed any major donors to actually fund his campaign. A wise man would gather up his belongings and leave, but Christie clearly feels that he's been anointed as America's next President, so who knows if he even will. The science of polling has never meant much to these morons before.


Fringe/Joke Candidates: Carson, Fiorina, Pataki

- Now we're down to 11.

Not Liked In Own Party: Christie, Jindal

Now we're down to 9.

Nope: Graham, Kasich

Now we're down to 7.

Can't Win The Nomination Because Republicans Are Sick Of Letting Guys That Previously Lost The Nomination Become The Nominee: Huckabee, Perry, Santorum

Now we're down to 4.

The Four Actual Candidates: Cruz (barely), Bush, Rubio, Walker



Walker has been my prediction for the nominee for ages. He checks all the right (pun intended) boxes by being a far-right extremist (see his battles with unions), coming from a purple-ish state and having ties to the big money elites (Koch Brothers). Polling has looked quite good for him at times and he's well liked within his own party.

It's really Bush and his formidable bank account/family name against Walker being the far-right dream candidate that Republicans have been aching for...

Walker and Bush have been the leader in every nationwide poll for the nominee since February with the exception of around the time that Rubio announced his candidacy.

Also, while Republicans have their fears that the Bush name is so tarnished that it would hurt them in the general election, the approval rating for GWB among Republicans has always been fairly high, so the name can only be a plus overall when it comes to the primary.
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Old 05-29-2015, 03:59 PM   #474
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Wow, i think my IQ just dropped 100 points. I guess real debate is a rarity here. Shame on me for trying to bring awareness. In fact you just reminded me why I stopped coming here a couple years ago. Thanks for the refresher.

Real debate is great, but that's not what you're doing. You're saying we're under fascism, that no one knows the truth except you because Obama has shut down discussion. Really?! You don't see the arrogant hyperbole in that?


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Old 05-29-2015, 04:07 PM   #475
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Real debate is great, but that's not what you're doing. You're saying we're under fascism, that no one knows the truth except you because Obama has shut down discussion. Really?! You don't see the arrogant hyperbole in that?
He's allowed to have the opinion that we are already under fascism.
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Old 05-29-2015, 04:13 PM   #476
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First, drop the insults. Second, sure, it doesn't help that you're only getting snarky replies, but, despite the extra depth you've given your argument, you've got to admit that "welcome to pure fascism" is just a wee bit hyperbolic.
Um, not everyone is giving him snarky replies.

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He's allowed to have the opinion that we are already under fascism.
Yes he sure is.
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Old 05-29-2015, 04:18 PM   #477
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Real debate is great, but that's not what you're doing. You're saying we're under fascism, that no one knows the truth except you because Obama has shut down discussion. Really?! You don't see the arrogant hyperbole in that?


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I just don't know where you're getting this stuff. I think noone knows the truth except me? Huh?

And point of fact, Obama *has* shut down discussion of the TPP for those in his government who have read it and are in a position to bring awareness to the public. And hence, he has shutdown public discussion as a result. This is not my view, this is the view of many thousands of people fighting this thing. (and growing every day).

Fascism is a marriage of government with corporation, for the advancement of corporate interests over those of the people. That was the definition I was going with. You guys really don't feel we are well down that road, and going further each day? And focusing in on my one single statement about pure fascism at the expense of everything else in this discussion seems a bit myopic, even if it did rub you the wrong way.
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Old 05-29-2015, 04:18 PM   #478
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Sanders numbers are pretty damn high against Clinton, especially since a lot of the country probably still doesn't know who he is...meanwhile, the other Democratic candidates have no traction.

Nationwide opinion polling for the Democratic Party 2016 presidential primaries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It will probably come down to a slug match between Sanders and Clinton. I imagine he would have no problem defeating her in states like Iowa and New Hampshire for various reasons (he's great at town hall meetings, comes from a rural state as well, voters in the early states don't just want to rubber-stamp the "inevitable" nominee).

But when it comes to larger states? Sanders really is never going to have the resources and name recognition to do well in somewhere like California or Florida which will surely have millions of low information voters that will just mindlessly check the box next to Hillary's name.

The other candidates (O'Malley, Webb, Chaffee) really have nothing to offer as they are to Hillary's right. And likewise, they all seem to hover around 0-1% for that very reason.
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Old 05-29-2015, 04:21 PM   #479
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Fascism is coming back. Nixon was going to be one of the great Presidents until that motherfucker Kennedy stole that motherfucker election. Because he was a Communist

You not a bad looking man Mr. Garrison, I'm gonna look you up when I get out

Kevin Bacon in JFK

Whenever I read the fascism comments I keep hearing his voice. What a great movie even though I don't buy the Garrison theory. I think what happened was more in line with 'Smoking Gun' documentary.
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Old 05-29-2015, 04:27 PM   #480
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I just don't know where you're getting this stuff. I think noone knows the truth except me? Huh?

And point of fact, Obama *has* shut down discussion of the TPP for those in his government who have read it and are in a position to bring awareness to the public. And hence, he has shutdown public discussion as a result. This is not my view, this is the view of many thousands of people fighting this thing. (and growing every day).

Fascism is a marriage of government with corporation, for the advancement of corporate interests over those of the people. That was the definition I was going with. You guys really don't feel we are well down that road, and going further each day? And focusing in on my one single statement about pure fascism at the expense of everything else in this discussion seems a bit myopic, even if it did rub you the wrong way.

Ok then let's discuss without all the myopia and hyperbole.

First, where did you get that definition of fascism? I've never seen that definition.

Secondly, can you give me examples of how Obama has shut down these discussions?


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