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Old 03-25-2015, 11:22 PM   #31
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Doesn't matter how much brainpower he has if he does things like deny that climate change exists. It's possible to be incredibly intelligent but still be really dumb. Ted Cruz falls into this category.


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Old 03-26-2015, 01:09 AM   #32
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I think Scott Walker shouldn't run, because we all know that none of us are really ready for Scott Walker.




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because we all know before one runs they must know how to walk

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Old 03-26-2015, 01:59 AM   #33
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For anyone who thinks Jeb's Bushiness will prevent him from winning an election, you're wrong.

Jeb is much more of a centrist than W. That's why he's currently fighting that label in his own party. He's also a lot more well spoken than W. He might struggle more with winning a primary, but in my opinion he's Hilary's only threat. Don't forget, Florida is increasingly becoming a blue state, and Jeb is idealized for being able to steal the state. He's essentially the last... good governor this state has had.

He's pretty much the only republican Id be willing to listen to, albeit I probably wouldn't vote for any of them.

For whoever said Ted Cruz would be on a ticket with Jeb though... absurd thought. Jeb is level-headed. Then again... McCain did choose Palin as a running mate.
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Old 03-26-2015, 12:46 PM   #34
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Ted Cruz has just a hair less electability than Donald Trump. But it's close, so he's got that going for him.
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Old 03-26-2015, 03:22 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by nbelcik View Post
Doesn't matter how much brainpower he has if he does things like deny that climate change exists. It's possible to be incredibly intelligent but still be really dumb. Ted Cruz falls into this category.


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he's just really cynical and wants money and influence. people don't want to believe in climate change because it's inconvenient and it may require a change of behavior. Cruz exploits this.
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Old 03-26-2015, 03:23 PM   #36
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For anyone who thinks Jeb's Bushiness will prevent him from winning an election, you're wrong.
I agree. He can win the GOP pretty damn easily. People writing off Jeb so easily are in for a surprise. What do the Republicans normally do?

1. Big money controls everything in government and politics...and the GOP has plenty of it...nearly all on the side of the establishment.

2. In the 50+ years since the Goldwater mistake, they support the most electable establishment candidate. Always. No matter the rhetoric of Reagan pretending to be an outsider (etc.) none of them were outsiders. They all had big money behind them.

3. Over that same period (since '64), in all but one instance they have nominated a candidate that had been through the fire before. (McCain, Reagan, Dole, Romney...all of them). The one instance where that didn't apply? George W Bush. The legacy vote.

4. George HW Bush is just as much Jeb's father as W is his brother. The establishment (the smart guy business conservatives, not the Reagan-worshippers) respects Bush 41 more than any living Republican. And Jeb is seen as "the smart son" to these people.

5. His stances on immigration and potentially other areas are far more electable than the vast majority of these GOP candidates.

I'm not saying the Bush legacy won't be a drag on him...it certainly will...but people get too narrow minded on this shit. Clinton has as much drag on her too but it doesn't matter in either case.

80% of the people already will vote for the D or the R and it's that simple. Of the 20% in the middle that can be swayed, issues like equal rights (women, gays) and immigration are quite important. Jeb fits that bill. Will he get out of the bloody GOP primary without needing to pander too much? I don't know but if he can show signs of life early on, I think he rolls to the nomination.

And I also agree, he's the only one that could remotely beat HRC. But he won't. The demographics, the electoral college...the basic GOP platform...it's all going against them.

If I had to bet right now, I'd say Walker-Bush or Bush-Walker and that's entirely dependent on whether Walker is a legit national candidate or another Rick Perry/Tim Pawlenty, both wilted like a flower in the national spotlight.
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Old 03-26-2015, 03:54 PM   #37
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he's just really cynical and wants money and influence.
That's accurate. People should think: Rush Limbaugh. It's not that they don't hold core conservative principles, it's that they pretend to be loons to appeal to the loons that buy into this shit...for money.

Some of them accrue that money through books sales (etc.) and some of them amass wealth through becoming elected to high office. I suspect the main difference between these two types of cynical individuals actually is intelligence.

The sad thing is, you really have to be a fair amount of cynical to get anything done in government. Because of the nature of how elections are won - by creating simple, easily digested fantasies. But here is the PARADOX that people need to understand. The cynical smart guys will get real behind closed doors. The genuine True Believers won't.

So in a lot of cases, it pays more to be cynical...and it's harmful to be sincere. I don't mean "pays more" in terms of $$$, though that too, I mean in terms of doing the work of the people. Like Obama had to drop his fantastical rhetoric ("most transparent administration ever") and go behind closed doors and let the health insurance corporation write the Affordable Care Act. I don't blame him for that for one moment. He got the shit done. Clinton did it all the time too...all the smart guys do. Only to be attacked by the fantasists that believe the crap they were told in order to vote for (whoever).

And the one major roadblock in the way of ANYTHING getting done in Washington? Those True Believers. The folks who are actually sincere and actually believe in what got them elected. The dueling ideologies are fantasies that can't work in the real world. The Left sells a fantasy to aspire to - an ideal that can never be reached. The Right sells a fantasy of selected reality - everyone that doesn't adhere is simply wrong, or biased against them.

Such is the paradox of our government...
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Old 03-26-2015, 03:56 PM   #38
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would there be anything more depressing than Bush vs. Clinton?

talk about dynasties.

that's what was so great about Obama -- he felt like we were finally turning the page on the Baby Boom and moving into the future, getting us out of the culture wars of the 60s and the scars of Vietnam.

and yet here we are.
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Old 03-26-2015, 07:06 PM   #39
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Don't forget Irvine, 1992 was a 3 way dance. If Perot isn't in the mix taking votes from Bush, Slick Willie doesn't win.

When Obama was elected, it felt like a new beginning. Unfortunately, the GOP just did their absolute best to sabotage his presidency, fucking the entire country in the process.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:58 PM   #40
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The 92 election was about the economy, Perot did not spoil Bush at all. Bush was a very well know quantity, a vote for Perot was a vote against Bush.
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Old 03-26-2015, 10:39 PM   #41
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I really wanted to believe that this time around there would be a stronger push for someone not from the two parties to legitimately run,but it seems that not much has changed, there.

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Old 03-26-2015, 10:47 PM   #42
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I really wanted to believe that this time around there would be a stronger push for someone not from the two parties to legitimately run,but it seems that not much has changed, there.

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Old 03-26-2015, 10:51 PM   #43
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I threw it away in the past election, too.

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Old 03-26-2015, 11:18 PM   #44
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That suggest that you would.have.preferred to.have.Romney.
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Old 03-26-2015, 11:41 PM   #45
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would there be anything more depressing than Bush vs. Clinton?

talk about dynasties.

that's what was so great about Obama -- he felt like we were finally turning the page on the Baby Boom and moving into the future, getting us out of the culture wars of the 60s and the scars of Vietnam.

and yet here we are.

In a sense, yeah. But still, there's a lot that both of them represent that's noticeably different from their predecessors. Hillary being a woman... which in today's time is a much bigger deal for the progression of women than in Bill's time... and Jeb well... Jeb really isn't like his brother at all. That's more just from experience of him as governor of my state. He's aaaaalmost the progressive that the Republican Party needs to survive. Dick Cheney aught to give him a talking about how Dicks that love Dicks are a good thing. And perhaps foreign policy accepting the Lesbenese.
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