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Old 05-15-2015, 02:56 AM   #301
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Clinton's a corporatist and war hawk, so in a lot of ways, there isn't much difference. Unlike recent Obama, she'll actually concede to GOP demands and sign legislation that the inevitable Republican-held House decides to pass.

The only way she really loses though is if Bernie Sanders manages to catch on. The guy's pretty likable once people realize what he stands for and who he is, but he's going to have literally no money to work with (he's foregoing Super PACs and large donations out of principle) and even if Sanders were to win a lot of early states (which really wouldn't be that surprising), how in the hell is he going to do well in states like California that are going to be loaded with millions of low-information voters that will just check the box next to Hillary's name?

Meanwhile, all of the other Dem contenders to Clinton are pretty much to her right, so nobody would have any reason to actually vote for them. As sad as it sounds, Clinton was one of the more liberal Senators while she was in Congress. Pathetic, really.

Warren is not going to run. People forget that most of the Democratic Party establishment has already endorsed Clinton, including Warren. Warren's also not much of a campaigner/debater and tends to just read prepared speeches in public verbatim. She's controlling her image to a great degree and trying far too hard to avoid slip-ups...convincing evidence that the people around her don't think she'd be able to survive a grueling campaign without making a lot of snafus.

And again, she doesn't want to run whatsoever and has already endorsed Hillary. Move on.

It's either a populist revolt that gets Sanders into the White House or we'll be crowning our first queen in Jan 2017.
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:40 AM   #302
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The Republicans I like: Cruz, Rubio, Walker, Paul.
Genuinely curious: what do you like about Cruz?
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Old 05-15-2015, 09:54 AM   #303
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Clinton's a corporatist and war hawk, so in a lot of ways, there isn't much difference. Unlike recent Obama, she'll actually concede to GOP demands and sign legislation that the inevitable Republican-held House decides to pass.

The only way she really loses though is if Bernie Sanders manages to catch on. The guy's pretty likable once people realize what he stands for and who he is, but he's going to have literally no money to work with (he's foregoing Super PACs and large donations out of principle) and even if Sanders were to win a lot of early states (which really wouldn't be that surprising), how in the hell is he going to do well in states like California that are going to be loaded with millions of low-information voters that will just check the box next to Hillary's name?

Meanwhile, all of the other Dem contenders to Clinton are pretty much to her right, so nobody would have any reason to actually vote for them. As sad as it sounds, Clinton was one of the more liberal Senators while she was in Congress. Pathetic, really.

Warren is not going to run. People forget that most of the Democratic Party establishment has already endorsed Clinton, including Warren. Warren's also not much of a campaigner/debater and tends to just read prepared speeches in public verbatim. She's controlling her image to a great degree and trying far too hard to avoid slip-ups...convincing evidence that the people around her don't think she'd be able to survive a grueling campaign without making a lot of snafus.

And again, she doesn't want to run whatsoever and has already endorsed Hillary. Move on.

It's either a populist revolt that gets Sanders into the White House or we'll be crowning our first queen in Jan 2017.
If the democrats were to put up Bernie Sanders, they would get crushed in the election like McGovern was crushed in 1972.

This is a centrist country, even if it is center left now. That means Bernie Sanders would have no chance in a national election.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:58 AM   #304
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i would tend to agree, however, we live in a country which does not require voting -- turnout, even in high turnout elections like 2008, is still, what, only 60% of the electorate?

if someone like Sanders could motivate those who don't vote to vote for him, it could be interesting.

of course, i generally think that's a pipe dream and a hypothetical.

if you want to increase voting -- which the GOP does not want to happen -- then don't have an election on fucking Tuesday when most people have to work.
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Old 05-15-2015, 12:38 PM   #305
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US Presidential Election 2016...because it's never too early

Sanders has no chance. Hillary will win the nomination without any struggle.
And yeah, the repubs are praying hard for a terrible voter turnout. That'll give them a better chance.

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Old 05-15-2015, 05:24 PM   #306
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Sanders would likely fare just as well as Clinton in the general election. For every woman that doesn't vote because Hillary isn't in the running, Sanders picks up a newly enthused liberal.

And there's no reason to buy the whole "too liberal to win" rhetoric. Poll after poll shows the vast majority of this country's citizens side with the Democrats on nearly every single issue. The existence of some bogey group in the middle that can actually be persuaded is pretty much a myth at this point. Yes, those low information voters that can be convinced definitely get targeted like crazy, but the whole point of the advertising is to rally the base and get them to turn out in the first place.

The country is clearly center-left at this point and continually moving towards the left given the shift in demographics and social attitudes. What Sanders would be saying he wants to do in practice would be hardly different from the lip service Obama gave people in 2008. Nobody shied away from it then, nor would they now.
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Old 05-15-2015, 06:02 PM   #307
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Here I thought that for years liberals have been clamoring for less old white men in the office. I guess Bernie Sanders is the exception?


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Old 05-15-2015, 09:37 PM   #308
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People on the far left want the person that best suits their policies, be it Sanders this year or Kucinich eight years ago. That's all.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:53 PM   #309
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Here I thought that for years liberals have been clamoring for less old white men in the office. I guess Bernie Sanders is the exception?


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Stop thinking in Fox News cliches...
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Old 05-16-2015, 12:18 AM   #310
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Stop thinking in Fox News cliches...

It's not a cliche buddy....
This MacPhisto dude is the one who said he has parties when old white politicians die. Yet he's clamoring for Sanders. Stop thinking in the everyone who isn't a bleeding heart liberal watches Fox 24/7 cliche....


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Old 05-16-2015, 12:41 AM   #311
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It's not a cliche buddy....
This MacPhisto dude is the one who said he has parties when old white politicians die. Yet he's clamoring for Sanders. Stop thinking in the everyone who isn't a bleeding heart liberal watches Fox 24/7 cliche....


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Bob, you've got to start thinking for yourself. Don't bother yourself with the trolls. Stop using the canned speech, "old white men", seriously this is straight out of Fox News and Limbaugh propaganda. And please stop using "bleeding heart", it shows you were raised by stuck in the 70/80's conservatives.
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Old 05-16-2015, 11:01 AM   #312
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Sanders would likely fare just as well as Clinton in the general election. For every woman that doesn't vote because Hillary isn't in the running, Sanders picks up a newly enthused liberal.

And there's no reason to buy the whole "too liberal to win" rhetoric. Poll after poll shows the vast majority of this country's citizens side with the Democrats on nearly every single issue. The existence of some bogey group in the middle that can actually be persuaded is pretty much a myth at this point. Yes, those low information voters that can be convinced definitely get targeted like crazy, but the whole point of the advertising is to rally the base and get them to turn out in the first place.

The country is clearly center-left at this point and continually moving towards the left given the shift in demographics and social attitudes. What Sanders would be saying he wants to do in practice would be hardly different from the lip service Obama gave people in 2008. Nobody shied away from it then, nor would they now.
I don't see it, but the 2016 election results will be very interesting to watch. Also an increase in voter turnout does not always bode well for Democrats. Voter turnout was much higher in 2004 than it was in 2000 and the Democrats still failed to remove Bush from the White House.
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Old 05-16-2015, 12:11 PM   #313
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Jeb Bush clearly mishears a question, says that he would have gone to war in Iraq based on the information they had back then, just as the majority of Congress did, including Hillary, but wouldn't go based on what they know now.

The press spends the next week playing selectively edited clips, creating a controversy out of nothing.

And just think... we've got 18 more months of this!
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Old 05-16-2015, 01:52 PM   #314
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Stop thinking in Fox News cliches...


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsaget77 View Post
It's not a cliche buddy....
This MacPhisto dude is the one who said he has parties when old white politicians die. Yet he's clamoring for Sanders. Stop thinking in the everyone who isn't a bleeding heart liberal watches Fox 24/7 cliche....


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Bob, you've got to start thinking for yourself. Don't bother yourself with the trolls. Stop using the canned speech, "old white men", seriously this is straight out of Fox News and Limbaugh propaganda. And please stop using "bleeding heart", it shows you were raised by stuck in the 70/80's conservatives.

Could you both drop this ongoing feud thing, please?
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Old 05-16-2015, 06:24 PM   #315
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I thought we were in the nest, the 'trust tree' ?

Let all opinions be heard.

As to the question about Cruz, he went to DC saying he was going to do what he promised the voters. In the GOP primary he is the only candidate to stay consistent on being staunchly against illegal immigration. That I predict will be the big elephant in the room as the process plays out.

He won't be the nominee but maybe a kingmaker between Walker and Rubio.


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