US Politics XIV: Vote for Pedro

[DaveC]

Oh do we have a returning fellow under a new name?

this guy just can't stand losing, he can't he can't, can't stand losing

 

[Vlad n U 2]

'I don't need sources, I just know'


Plus a link to a National Review article. I love it.

 

[Magnus Maximus]

'I don't need sources, I just know'


Plus a link to a National Review article. I love it.

National review yes, but do you know how the author was, because if you did you wouldn't laugh.

That was Victor David Hanson, do you know how that is? VDH is one of the most respected writers on Military and Future affairs of our time. He is very respected in military schools. His writings are mandatory readings at CGSC (ILE and AOC) and the War College. One of his books "the Western Way of War" is mandatory reading.

here is a list of some of his works:

• Warfare and Agriculture in Classical Greece. University of California Press, 1983. .mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit ISBN 0-520-21025-5. Rev. ed. 1998. online edition
• The Western Way of War: Infantry Battle in Classical Greece. Alfred A. Knopf, 1989. 2nd. ed. 2000. ISBN 0-394-57188-6 online edition
• Hoplites: The Classical Greek Battle Experience, editor, Routledge, 1991. ISBN 0-415-04148-1 online edition
• The Other Greeks: The Family Farm and the Agrarian Roots of Western Civilization, Free Press, 1995. ISBN 0-02-913751-9
• Fields Without Dreams: Defending the Agrarian Idea, Free Press, 1996. ISBN 0-684-82299-7 online edition
• Who Killed Homer?: The Demise of Classical Education and the Recovery of Greek Wisdom, with John Heath, Encounter Books, 1998. ISBN 1-893554-26-0 online edition
• The Soul of Battle: From Ancient Times to the Present Day, How Three Great Liberators Vanquished Tyranny, Free Press, 1999. ISBN 0-684-84502-4 online edition
• The Wars of the Ancient Greeks: And the Invention of Western Military Culture, Cassell, 1999. ISBN 0-304-35222-5 online edition
• The Land Was Everything: Letters from an American Farmer, Free Press, 2000. ISBN 0-684-84501-6 online edition
• Bonfire of the Humanities: Rescuing the Classics in an Impoverished Age, with John Heath and Bruce S. Thornton, ISI Books, 2001. ISBN 1-882926-54-4 online edition
• Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power, Doubleday, 2001. ISBN 0-385-50052-1 online edition Published in the UK as Why the West Has Won: Carnage and Culture from Salamis to Vietnam, Faber, 2001. ISBN 0-571-20417-1
• An Autumn of War: What America Learned from September 11 and the War on Terrorism, Anchor Books, 2002. ISBN 1-4000-3113-3 A collection of essays, mostly from National Review, covering events occurring between September 11, 2001 and January 2002 online edition
• Mexifornia: A State of Becoming, Encounter Books, 2003. ISBN 1-893554-73-2 online edition
• Ripples of Battle: How Wars Fought Long Ago Still Determine How We Fight, How We Live, and How We Think, Doubleday, 2003. ISBN 0-385-50400-4 online edition
• Between War and Peace: Lessons from Afghanistan and Iraq, Random House, 2004. ISBN 0-8129-7273-2. A collection of essays, mostly from National Review, covering events occurring between January 2002 and July 2003 online edition
• A War Like No Other: How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War, Random House, 2005. ISBN 1-4000-6095-8[40] online edition
• The Father of Us All: War and History, Ancient and Modern, Bloomsbury Press, 2010. ISBN 978-1-60819-165-9 online edition
• The End of Sparta: A Novel, Bloomsbury Press, 2011. ISBN 978-1-60819-164-2 online edition
• The Savior Generals: How Five Great Commanders Saved Wars That Were Lost – From Ancient Greece to Iraq, Bloomsbury Press, 2013. ISBN 978-1-6081-9163-5 online edition
• The Second World Wars: How the First Global Conflict Was Fought and Won, Basic Books, 2017. ISBN 978-0465066988

 

[BEAL]

Trump called off air strikes this morning against Iran

Do we think he is a bit nervous of starting a war compared to Pompeo and Bolton or is this a way of making him look somewhat in charge ?

 

[Magnus Maximus]

Can we just say Pence was right and move on?


Because in the end it's economies that win wars, I believe it's in the Cambridge history of modern warfare written by Parker (which Hanson is also featured) at the end of the chapter why the west has become so dominate it discusses economies and credit. In fact I think the exact quote is the extension of credit is the single greatest invention in the western way of war.


Parker, G. (2005). The Cambridge history of warfare. New York: Cambridge University Press.


Now this is may take 100% mine. Clauswitz said the war is an extension of diplomacy, I agree it is. However I believe that victory in war is an extension of economics, that war itself is economic.


Lets look at one of the Principle of War: economy of force - Employ all combat power available in the most effective way possible it states to use the minimum amount of combat power to secondary objectives. But if you further weed it out it's deeper than that it states I have limited assets wether that's troops, material, Ordnance etc, this supports the principle of Mass, Economy of Force is really a limiting factor, does a highly supplied Army need to use EoF as a principle, I would argue no. It no longer becomes a limiting factor but an advantage.


One of the cold realizations I have come to as that my job in the Army is simply (if we enter a Peer to Peer, or near Peer fight) is to contain the enemy until we out spend and out produce them.


We have the DIME (Diplomatic, Information, Military and Economics) these are the 4 sources of national power. I contend that the E is caps and the others are lc dimE.


The Sinews of War are infinite Money -- Cicero

 

[Magnus Maximus]

Trump called off air strikes this morning against Iran

Do we think he is a bit nervous of starting a war compared to Pompeo and Bolton or is this a way of making him look somewhat in charge ?

President Trump ran on keeping is out of "Stupid Wars" I don't think he wants to get involved in a War in Iran, or he is playing good cop, bad cop.

 

[DaveC]

Can we just say Pence was right and move on?

you just desperately want ANYONE to agree with you about this, don't you? [emoji38]

 

[Magnus Maximus]

you just desperately want ANYONE to agree with you about this, don't you? [emoji38]

Well I provided source after source backing my positions, you didn't provide any.

You claimed that land lease to Russia was inconsequential yet even Stalin said he couldn't cope with out it.

You claimed that the German Army being bled to death outside Moscow was part of SDO, when the Soviets didn't even use SDO at the time, and I provided sources from the Army War College stating that SDO wasn't used until 45 and then barley. That it was really just a fairy tale.

I provided source after source that shows it was the US economy that won the war.

But lets say as you said just for funsies that SDO was being used in 42 and early 43. Lets just say the SU had the ability to maneuver that quickly. Do you think the soviets could have achieved any success on the war, If the Americans weren't spitting out 37,000 bombers that weren't smashing the shit out of German factories preventing them from rebuilding tanks, planes and IFVs really, that is why the soviets advanced, the German army was being starved of resupply, they could never reconstitute.

You don't think the fact the Luftwaffe was being used to attack the never ending waves of bombers from the US over Germany and not on the Eastern Front had some huge bearing on the outcome, are the fact that ball bearing plants were pulverized and w/o BB you couldn't make new aircraft. Would SDO even work if the Germans maintained air superiority. The blitzkrieg ain't the BG without air power.

Also, I will concede that maybe nukes wouldn't have caused Germany to surrender, but it took Japan out which then Germany would face the full force of the US. 14M servicemen and woman. Also the full might of our economy, because as you see maintaining a navy in the pacific is expensive. Now you have to deal with the US power concentrated on one front, not two.

In the end it wasn't the soviet army that decided the outcome of the war (yes they sacrificed their soldiers needlessly most of the time) it was the US economy and production base.

So yes Freedom won WW2, Capitalism won WW2, Pence was right

Who won WW2, what man? it wasn't Zhukov or Stalin or even FDR, Ike or Marshall it was Knudson, William S Knudson

 

[DaveC]

double post

 

[DaveC]

imagine being in an angry frenzy for two days just because someone posted a picture of the soviet flag flying in berlin

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

Oh do we have a returning fellow under a new name?

What blows my mind is he created this alter in 2016... That takes dedication

 

[Vlad n U 2]

imagine being in an angry frenzy for two days just because someone posted a picture of the soviet flag flying in berlin

It starts to make sense when you realise he's made what feels like a dozen alt accounts after his initial ban. Poor bloke doesn't have much to do in his real life.

 

[DaveC]

nah man he's for sure a super smart big-brained military historian, and totally not someone who googled a bunch of random military jargon yesterday to try and make up a cover story on the fly for an alt.

 

[Magnus Maximus]

It starts to make sense when you realise he's made what feels like a dozen alt accounts after his initial ban. Poor bloke doesn't have much to do in his real life.

What in the world are you talking about. I have no other accounts, and this is my first time posting here. I created this account years ago, and then never used it. I just happened to decide to check it out again, I saw some ignorant statements about the Cardinals fanbase and stood up for my hometown.

Then I looked around a bit and found some more uneducated statements so I posted about it.

Dave the problem you have is you don't understand war, amateurs like you talk tactics, professionals talk logistics. War is won by Logistics, Industry and Economics. Sure there are a few glorious battles like when Caesar defeated Pompey or when the Turks were defeated at Vienna that defy the norm (we are talking Peer to Peer or near peer, not COIN). But in the end its money, movement and industry that win wars. (Peer to Peer conflict)

 

[anitram]

Can we just say Pence was right and move on?

I've never seen anyone white knight for this asshole before, so this is sort of exciting.

 

[DaveC]

I've never seen anyone white knight for this asshole before, so this is sort of exciting.

 

[Magnus Maximus]

nah man he's for sure a super smart big-brained military historian, and totally not someone who googled a bunch of random military jargon yesterday to try and make up a cover story on the fly for an alt.

I am not some super smart military historian, I am just know more about the military and military policy than you. I am an avg Field Grade Officer, who has happened to study Military History. Honestly what I posted is first month stuff at CGSC. I did work for the CMH in a military role. Do you want me to describe FT LMN in detail for you (oh wait already did) Wait a minute I bet you don't now where the CMH is even at, sorry

This is so big of you, what Jargon did I make up, you claim you were an EM (and disliked Officers) so why don't you translate some of it.

Dave you and your buddies (your little white knights), want to bully people, now that you know you are wrong you don't want to answer posts just try to insult me, belittle me and invalidate me

You asked for sources- I gave you Parker, Hanson, Overy, Sajer, cites from the War College- what did you give me- Nothing not one source (except a book you never read)

Bottom-line you are a socialist an anti American- so saying the USSR won the war is you validating your beliefs that Socialism is good and Capitalism is bad. You were trying to make fun of Mike Pence who was right, you were trying to show everyone how he was so dumb and you were so clever. But I guess you need to do some more research before you belittle some one.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Bottom-line you are a socialist an anti American

oh hell yeah babey! woohoo!! i'll drink to that, bro

 

[Magnus Maximus]

oh hell yeah babey! woohoo!! i'll drink to that, bro

I am sure you will

 

[DaveC]

oh hell yeah babey! woohoo!! i'll drink to that, bro

товарищ, за здоровье!

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I am sure you will

He quoted you like... you sound sort of like a caricature.

 

[Magnus Maximus]

He quoted you like... you sound sort of like a caricature.

yeah I figured that

 

[BVS]

Good, Unlike you I don't need sources These are things I just know.

Thank you! I’m so tired of these so called adults in here constantly asking for a source or facts to backup claims. The majority of the history books they read were written by the progressive globalists and are nothing but fake news.

Sometimes it just takes a patriot who just knows things to bring a little truth in this echo chamber.

Welcome [emoji108]

 

[Magnus Maximus]

Thank you! I’m so tired of these so called adults in here constantly asking for a source or facts to backup claims. The majority of the history books they read were written by the progressive globalists and are nothing but fake news.

Sometimes it just takes a patriot who just knows things to bring a little truth in this echo chamber.

Welcome [emoji108]

Thanks so much

 

[DaveC]

 

[Vlad n U 2]

 

[dabiggestu2fan]

Trump called off air strikes this morning against Iran

Do we think he is a bit nervous of starting a war compared to Pompeo and Bolton or is this a way of making him look somewhat in charge ?

Blah, now his stupid base is probably claiming that he is a hero for “saving” 150 lives. I bet you anything he did this on purpose so that his base can say this. Too bad at the same time he showed what an idiot he was by rushing to a war decision that should be made by congress and not rushed in the last minute.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

[emoji23]

 

[Irvine511]

Well this was a read.

FWIW, MM isn’t STING. I can still spot Mr Resolution 1441 a mile away, no matter the subject.

Victor Davis Hansen is absolutely a right wing outrage merchant and doesn’t qualify as a legitimate source.

Other than that, I’ve enjoyed this exchange. Really.

 

[BEAL]

https://twitter.com/alt_uscis/status/1142068211539750913?s=21

These are human beings, children