US Politics XIV: Vote for Pedro

[DaveC]

oh cool, the hot take express has pulled into FYM station today.

biden's way up in the polls because people just love him, certainly not because of name recognition. the only point in having any debates is to figure out who is gonna be his VP. [emoji41]

 

[womanfish]

oh cool, the hot take express has pulled into FYM station today.

biden's way up in the polls because people just love him, certainly not because of name recognition. the only point in having any debates is to figure out who is gonna be his VP. [emoji41]

Whatever helps you sleep well next to your Bernie Doll at night.

 

[DaveC]

lol wow, it only took you one post to get to the lame berniebot insults today, i must have hit a nerve there

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Whatever helps you sleep well next to your Bernie Doll at night.

This shit doesn't help either.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

oh cool, the hot take express has pulled into FYM station today.

biden's way up in the polls because people just love him, certainly not because of name recognition. the only point in having any debates is to figure out who is gonna be his VP. [emoji41]

Biden is leading in the national and individual state polls in the first four primary states. Every candidate for wither major party since 1980 who's done that at this point has won their party's nomination with the exception of Ted Kennedy.

There's very clearly a shit ton of time for things to change between now and then. By no means is there a guarantee. But it would be a bit foolhardy to state that he only has a bump because of name recognition that will inevitably fade.

Just as foolhardy as it is to declare everyone who's supported Bernie as a delusional cult follower. Which at this point I think most of us can agree is pretty fucking obnoxious and the opposite of what we need.

 

[DaveC]

i just think it might be helpful to at least have a debate or two before we decide that biden is the only person that could possibly hope to win.

 

[Diemen]

A guest on the latest Pod Save America ep made a good point: yeah, Biden's up in the polls, but sooner or later this enormous field of candidates is going to thin out, and, who else is Biden going to pull in?

He's already alienating (rightfully) angry progressive activists by saying, essentially, that people need to get over the anger and start working together guys. He's alienating those who see that the problem in the Republican party is far larger and deeper than Trump by saying (just as naively as he stated in 2012 that the Republican fever would break when Obama was reelected) that the Republicans will have an epiphany when Trump is gone and start governing like rational adults again (sidenote: newsflash - Republicans already had an epiphany: that they don't even have to act like they're interested in bipartisanship anymore - in fact their base prefers it if they're just open about 'sticking it to the libs'). He's alienating women with his poor handling of his touchy-feely transgressions and non-apology to Anita Hill.

He's way up in the polls not through the strength of his message but through the strength of his name recognition. He's a known quantity. But a lot of the energy on the left is being divided among this huge field, and once that field starts to narrow, I don't know that he picks up much more support if he sticks to his current, deeply flawed and dangerously naive messaging.

The rot runs much deeper than Trump, and running a 2020 presidential campaign on a central argument that gets that so completely wrong is incredibly worrisome.

And I say this as someone who tends to lean towards the moderate side of the American left wing, and someone who also acknowledges that somebody in office who doesn't excite you but is at least on your side politically is a more effective ally than the perfect candidate who ticks all your litmus test boxes but doesn't beat Trump. But for this election, given what we've had to deal with not just the last 3 years but the last 11+ with a Republican party that puts party and profit before country EVERY time, it feels like we need someone who understands the depth of the problem and is fired up and willing to energize people to tackle it head on. And Joe Biden just doesn't seem to get it.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i just think it might be helpful to at least have a debate or two before we decide that biden is the only person that could possibly hope to win.

Jesus.

Who ever said that a) he's the only person who can win, and b) that I even want him to win?

Historically, statistically he's in a great position - a much better position than simply having a name recognition bump. A bettor would like those odds.

I've already stated that I'd prefer both Biden and Sanders to go the fuck away, as we don't need anymore 70+ year old straight white dudes in office.

That said, they clearly aren't. Is what it is.

My argument about appealing to more than just the base, or more than just the left, is based not around any one candidate - rather as a political strategy to take back power by any means necessary in order to a) reverse as much of the damage as possible, and b) set the country back on a progressive path. To do that? Sorry, you're going to need the moderate voters to come along - and not just at the top of the ballot. You absolutely need to steal from some purple states to have any hope of taking the senate. Because if you don't take back the senate and hold the house then it doesn't mean dick if you put Sanders or Biden or the ghost of fucking JFK in office. Nothing will be accomplished, and in 2022 you'll probably lose both houses because of the "ineffective president.". Then 2024 comes around and the GOP puts forth someone who's like Trump just not as fucking stupid. Game's over.

So to that end? Yea, I think ignoring moderates and not trying to reach them is a pretty dumb campaign strategy; regardless of candidate.

Still love you though [emoji8]

 

[DaveC]

that post was not at all directed at you, though i guess that wasn't totally clear.

love you too tho

 

[womanfish]

This shit doesn't help either.

Truly the only way to respond to his nonsense.

DaveC's formula of replies to me:

1. insult
2. take subject of post and twist it into something else
3. take one line of lengthy post and conflate and exaggerate it into something that wasn't stated.
4. Rinse and Repeat

Never a thoughtful response.

Sorry, but it's pretty obvious that Bernie supporters have been more vocal since Biden announced and in the same week, Bernie's numbers dropped by around 6 and Biden's jumped by about 10.

There are 2 candidates with 100% name recognition. Biden and Sanders. There are a few with very near 100% recognition to Dem primary voters. Warren, Beto, Harris and increasingly Buttegieg. So the name recognition excuse doesn't wash.

I said in my initial post that I really just want the debates to start. Because I think that's when it gets interesting. Biden will almost certainly go down in numbers once the debates start. Some of the other 20 in the field will have some stand out moments and it will chip away at the leaders and some from the bottom will rise. That's great. Biden could very well crash and burn, and so be it, if he can't make it through a primary.
I just know that the numbers we are currently seeing, are because Biden is reflective of what the majority of the party wants. Whether some people like it or not.

 

[DaveC]

please find and quote one single post where i have ever had good things to say about bernie sanders. it should be pretty easy if i'm the kind of whacko that sleeps with a bernie doll. go ahead, i'll wait.

 

[Diemen]

Truly the only way to respond to his nonsense.

Yeah, no it's not.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

That doll must be crazy unsanitary by now

 

[womanfish]

Yeah, no it's not.

Seriously? You jump in here? Where were you when he's told me to fuck off in the past? Since actual substantive posts don't seem to elicit a serious, thoughtful, or even rational response, then maybe getting a ridiculous response back might make him see what that's like. My guess is it will not.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Truly the only way to respond to his nonsense.



DaveC's formula of replies to me:



1. insult

2. take subject of post and twist it into something else

3. take one line of lengthy post and conflate and exaggerate it into something that wasn't stated.

4. Rinse and Repeat



Never a thoughtful response.



Sorry, but it's pretty obvious that Bernie supporters have been more vocal since Biden announced and in the same week, Bernie's numbers dropped by around 6 and Biden's jumped by about 10.



There are 2 candidates with 100% name recognition. Biden and Sanders. There are a few with very near 100% recognition to Dem primary voters. Warren, Beto, Harris and increasingly Buttegieg. So the name recognition excuse doesn't wash.



I said in my initial post that I really just want the debates to start. Because I think that's when it gets interesting. Biden will almost certainly go down in numbers once the debates start. Some of the other 20 in the field will have some stand out moments and it will chip away at the leaders and some from the bottom will rise. That's great. Biden could very well crash and burn, and so be it, if he can't make it through a primary.

I just know that the numbers we are currently seeing, are because Biden is reflective of what the majority of the party wants. Whether some people like it or not.

Dude just stop calling all Sanders supporters fucking robots and sheep and sleeping with a Bernie fuck toy and I imagine things will go a lot smoother for you.

Continue saying that someone's a cultist for supporting a candidate and I imagine that person will continue telling you to go fuck yourself.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

DaveC's formula of replies to me:



1. insult

2. take subject of post and twist it into something else

3. take one line of lengthy post and conflate and exaggerate it into something that wasn't stated.

4. Rinse and Repeat



Never a thoughtful response.

[emoji897] ?

 

[womanfish]

Dude just stop calling all Sanders supporters fucking robots and sheep and sleeping with a Bernie fuck toy and I imagine things will go a lot smoother for you.

Continue saying that someone's a cultist for supporting a candidate and I imagine that person will continue telling you to go fuck yourself.

Never said that all Bernie supporters are robots. Just realized that anytime I would mention a negative about him, DaveC jumps in all hot and bothered. Not sure how i came up with the crazy thought that he might like the guy.

I supported Bernie through most of his 2016 primary and donated to him. I still like the guy, I just think that anyone paying the slightest bit of attention back then, saw that his supporters were a bit over the top, and would excuse him for anything while trashing any others that didn't see it his way. The term Berniebot did not just appear for no reason.

So again, someone that would jump in and tell me to go fuck myself when i say negative things about Bernie, or insult me when i dare say something good about a moderate candidate, does bring that to mind. And I would say, if he didn't want to be viewed that way, that maybe he should take a look at that.

You'll notice that the bulk of DaveC's dickish responses are reserved for me, responding to posts that never mention him or disparage any Bernie supporters. So possibly, he shouldn't be shocked at a dick response back to him, when he jumps in to insult me for a perfectly reasonable and benign post. A lot of dishing and not a lot of being able to take.

 

[Diemen]

Seriously? You jump in here? Where were you when he's told me to fuck off in the past? Since actual substantive posts don't seem to elicit a serious, thoughtful, or even rational response, then maybe getting a ridiculous response back might make him see what that's like. My guess is it will not.

I'm not here as often as I used to be. So I'm sure I've missed some inappropriate responses from Dave and others (probably from you, too, let's be honest). I happened to be on today, though.

I think you'd be better served ignoring Dave, rather than tossing out stuff that is just as ridiculous and/or lazy as you perceive his responses to be. Two wrongs yada yada.

 

[womanfish]

I'm not here as often as I used to be. So I'm sure I've missed some inappropriate responses from Dave and others (probably from you, too, let's be honest). I happened to be on today, though.

I think you'd be better served ignoring Dave, rather than tossing out stuff that is just as ridiculous and/or lazy as you perceive his responses to be. Two wrongs yada yada.

point taken. nuf said.

 

[DaveC]

someone that would jump in and tell me to go fuck myself when i say negative things about Bernie

this never ever ever happened. you're literally making shit up out of thin air right now. i never insulted you once today or even said anything directly at or to you before you decided to take a really stupid direct shot at me so cut the self-pity party short, stop whining and acting like i'm constantly going out of my way to bully you. grow the fuck up.

 

[Diemen]

Let’s get back on topic, please.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Yes. Let's.

So Dave, about this doll.

 

[DaveC]

yea i'm pretty insulted that he would suggest that i sleep with a bernie sanders doll, after i spent all that extra money specifically to get the luxury beto o'rourke model.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Nice.

 

[Irvine511]

You absolutely need to steal from some purple states to have any hope of taking the senate.

let's talk about this.

it doesn't matter if the D's win the presidency and even increase their margin in the house in 2020.

the Senate votes on SCOTUS nominees.

it's colossally stupid that California gets as many Senators as North Dakota. but does anyone see this changing any time soon? even if super-left President Leftist McJacobin Scahill Tiabbi, Jr. wins the presidency, do we see him/her passing anything through the Senate that Joe Manchin won't vote for? do we see Senate candidates in Florida or Ohio or Arizona riding those coattails to victory? for that matter, do we see said President Leftist McJacobin Scahill Tiabbi, Jr. winning the electoral college even if they win California by 6m votes this time?

there is an unfair rural tilt in the structure of the US government -- the 18th century system needs updating. but the only way it gets updated is by winning the Senate, where all states -- and there are many more rural states than urban states -- have equal standing.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

During an exchange with Rep. Katie Porter (D-CA), Carson revealed that he’s unfamiliar with a common acronym used to described foreclosed properties — REO, which stands for real-estate owned.

“Do you know what an REO is?” Porter asked.

“An Oreo?” Carson replied, apparently thinking of cookies.

Only the best people

 

[dazzledbylight]

Only the best people

Oh brother, how pathetic, Ben.


Headache is right about catching some moderates, in order to get the Presidency and The Senate back.
I hope that if Biden's numbers go down and posters here make good arguments that that will happen, then one or more of the others who gets the things Biden doesn't gets higher numbers.
Still favor Kamala, Warren, Pete, and two others (one mayor, not DeBlasio, and one other).
If someone more progressive really catches fire with a lot of people including moderates - great! T

But the first order is grabbing the Ship of State Captain's Wheel away from Trump and throwing McConnell over board. Then we can start to halt the bleeding they've caused. And go from there.

 

[dazzledbylight]

So i see McGhan didn't show up. How long will a damn court order case take.

Wasn't Mueller supposed to testify by Fri. Is Barr holding him back.

And yes we need Deuchte Bank and other related documents, nao!


Fuck you Drumph you've caused so much damage already!

 

[BEAL]

I think this describes the let down of Mueller

https://twitter.com/djrothkopf/status/1131001846477283330?s=21

Just look at how all those he indicted and charged since

papadapolous — runs around spouting conspiracy theories and shows zero remorse for his actions

Mike Flynn — same. Goes around to his right wing conferences. Holds tons of state secrets, and just recently came out that he was playing both sides

Manafort — no remorse. Lied to Mueller, continued to break his agreements.

The guy who’s paying the biggest price is Cohen, and he has to wonder why the fuck did i cooperate when it got me thrown in prison and the other actors/criminals are all still running around free

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Many of you put way, way too much hope into Mueller from the start - at points even elevating him into some saviour of sorts. Mueller this, Mueller that.