US Politics XIII: Don Jr. The Worst Judgment of Anyone in the World.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Make America Followers Again

 

[anitram]

It is no secret that I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton, but Joe Biden is a significantly worse candidate than she is. His entire political career is a perfect example of how much "Democrats" love being right wing.

I don't think that Joe Biden is the right choice this time around at all. It's like how sometimes people can be way ahead of their time, to me, he's behind the time here. Just a guy at the wrong place at the wrong time. The only reason he is polling well is because there are way too many candidates in the race and the vote is split in 100 different directions.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I don't think that Joe Biden is the right choice this time around at all. It's like how sometimes people can be way ahead of their time, to me, he's behind the time here. Just a guy at the wrong place at the wrong time. The only reason he is polling well is because there are way too many candidates in the race and the vote is split in 100 different directions.

Early success in polling, if I recall correctly, tends to be very negatively correlated to odds of securing the nomination. Like peaking too early. If I remember this right, Christie, Paul, and Bush all at one point led the polls.

 

[DaveC]

yeah remember when we all thought that the primary was jeb's to lose? not even a year later and we were at "please clap".

 

[BEAL]

Warren leads for me. Buttigieg is interesting and I’ve liked his answers so far.

Biden will lead because that’s the narrative in the media.

I don’t think Joe would be bad, but I’m concerned over his age. And he’s part of an old guard that maybe it’s time to get away from.

But anything is better than Trump/Pence

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I don’t think the candidate has to be a women but I do feel like Joe Biden as candidate sends the wrong message on that front. As Peedrunk said, he’s sort of the epitome of an “evolving democrat” who just follows the center of our left and right through his career. Not exactly the hawk on anything progressive. The future needs a big kiss; show me Biden getting on his boots and I might change my mind.

 

[anitram]

This idiot is baaaack you guys!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jacob-wohl-faked-death-threats-against-himself?via=twitter_page

Right-wing personality Jacob Wohl appears to have faked death threats against himself and submitted them to police as evidence that he was facing “terroristic threats,” according to newly released documents.

 

[dabiggestu2fan]

This idiot is baaaack you guys!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jacob-wohl-faked-death-threats-against-himself?via=twitter_page

If there are two people I can stand apart from trump or this idiot and his father!

 

[bono_212]

So does Beto actually have any experience?

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Does he even have any beliefs?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

So does Beto actually have any experience?

Did Obama?

 

[anitram]

Does he even have any beliefs?

No.

Except that America is now, more than ever "The last great hope of earth." I threw up in my mouth a little when I heard that.

Yes, the country that foisted Trump upon the rest of us and still approves of him at a rate of about 40% is our last hope.

 

[Hewson]

"The last great hope of earth." |

Wasn't that a song on Pop?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

To be fair saying "ya know, America kinda sucks and always has" wouldn't exactly endear oneself to the hearts and minds of the electorate.

 

[anitram]

To be fair saying "ya know, America kinda sucks and always has" wouldn't exactly endear oneself to the hearts and minds of the electorate.

Sure but there is a middle ground between that and the verbal diarrhea he produced.

 

[DaveC]

who needs silly crap like experience and beliefs when you have a killer smile and a cool skateboard?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I'm not sure if you realize this or not, but America is more than just a country. One could say, and I may be the first to bring this up, but one could say that it's more of an idea.

 

[DaveC]

No.

Except that America is now, more than ever "The last great hope of earth." I threw up in my mouth a little when I heard that.

Yes, the country that foisted Trump upon the rest of us and still approves of him at a rate of about 40% is our last hope.

aside from being stupid and untrue, that's actually pretty damn insulting to anyone who isn't american.

 

[bono_212]

Did Obama?

I'm not trying to be an ass, I was seriously asking. Writing this post before just checking Wiki myself, but I thought Obama was a governor and short-term senator first.

Edit: state senate, not governor, my bad.

And I didn't realize that Beto served in the House, so that's what I basically wanted to know, it's almost the same situation as Obama.

 

[womanfish]

I don't think that Joe Biden is the right choice this time around at all. It's like how sometimes people can be way ahead of their time, to me, he's behind the time here. Just a guy at the wrong place at the wrong time. The only reason he is polling well is because there are way too many candidates in the race and the vote is split in 100 different directions.

pardon my lengthy post...

You may be right, he may not be right this time around. But I think a lot of people are getting this part wrong. Let's be clear. Trump won last time. Yes he lost the popular vote, but he won by the current Electoral system. Doesn't matter that California and NY racked up millions of more votes that didn't really mean anything in the end.
You hear this split opinion among the pundits. One will say, there really is no forgotten white middle class vote, the real key is young people and minorities. Then one will say, it's all about capturing the working class people that Democrats have failed to engage with since Bill Clinton.
From what I see in the current field, there is only one person that can bridge this gap and capture most of those voting blocks, and that's Biden.

Sure, the youth vote will suffer. But guess what? As much as we want to think that THIS time, they will turn out and vote. They won't. At least not in the numbers that other demos will. In 2016 18 to 29 year olds were at 42%. 18-35 year olds were under 50% turnout. 45 to 60+ year olds were at 70%. Middle age to older African American women turn out at almost 90%.

Look at the 3 states that handed Trump his victory.
PA - Dems won this state by 3 to 10% over the last 26 years. Lets just say, an average of 6%. So Trump flipped this state by almost 7 percentage points. Why? Working class voters, unions that had leaders urging their members to vote Dem, but voted for Trump. Lower than expected African American turnout.

WI - went Dem from between 1 and 12% for the last 26 years. Lets say avg of 6%. Trump flipped by 7 points again. A largely white, working class state with lots of rural areas.

MI - Dems won for 26 years between 4 and 13% Lets say avg of 8%. Trump flipped by almost 9 points. Major union and working class state. African American turnout was not near what it needed to be.

So i fully believe that this time, it will take someone who will speak directly to those voters again. And speak to them genuinely.
Biden does this like no one else. I'd say Bernie does well here too. But I think Bernie has the double edged sword with this voting block, where they are a demo that just won't fully get on board the Democratic Socialist train.

Take a look at Biden's speech he just gave to the firefighters this week. It went from wild cheers and chants of "run Joe run" to once he was speaking, you could hear a pin drop in that room. Because he has that thing that can capture an audience. That makes them feel that he is listening and understands you at that moment. Bernie has this, and i think in a way Warren, but not to the same degree.

I think if Trump showed us anything its that people are drawn to a talker. It's like a salesman. You can have one guy that knows a product inside and out, every spec, every benefit to the potential client or consumer, but they are scripted and stiff and they don't sell nearly as well as the guy that doesn't know as much, but can make the consumer feel good and confident in their decision.

So what's needed this time around is not only someone that has major pull with working class and moderate Dems that could swing to them or Trump and women, and minorities, but also is an unscripted, personality that can capture an audience and get them on board.
Biden has this. Booker is probably the worst in my opinion. He is this fields "please clap" candidate. Scripted to the tee, and selling platitudes that people don't want to hear right now.

I think if Biden chose Harris, or now maybe Abrams (who is thinking of jumping in) as his running mate, it would be a landslide victory. And it would set the running mate up to succeed him successfully.

 

[DaveC]

“When it comes to civil rights and civil liberties, I’m a liberal but that’s it. I’m really quite conservative on most other issues. My wife said I was the most socially conservative man she had ever known. I’m a screaming liberal when it comes to senior citizens because I really think they are getting screwed. I’m a liberal on health care because I believe it is a birth right of every human being—not just some damn privilege to be meted out to a few people. But when it comes to issues like abortion, amnesty, and acid, I’m about as liberal as your grandmother.

I don’t like the Supreme Court decision on abortion. I think it went too far. I don’t think that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body. I support a limited amnesty, and I don’t think marijuana should be legalized. Now, if you still think I’m a liberal, let me tell you that I support the draft. I’m scared to death of a professional army. I vote my own way and it is not always with the Democrats. I did vote for George McGovern, of course, but I would have voted for Mickey Mouse against Richard Nixon. I despise that man.”

yeah, fuck joe biden. obviously he's changed somewhat since this quote, but come on. if it was going to likely be a close contest then sure, being able to swing voters over from the other side on charisma alone is more of a factor, but the democrats can do way better than him in an election that's basically the left's to lose at this point now that impeachment has been ruled out.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I'm not trying to be an ass, I was seriously asking. Writing this post before just checking Wiki myself, but I thought Obama was a governor and short-term senator first.

Edit: state senate, not governor, my bad.

And I didn't realize that Beto served in the House, so that's what I basically wanted to know, it's almost the same situation as Obama.

Yea they pretty much have the same experience. Beto was actually in Congress longer than Obama was, but in the house vs the senate.

Both clearly have more political experience than our current train wreck of a president.

I'm not saying Beto is the one. I'm not even sure I like him. I don't know enough about him. But I'm generally drawn to those who haven't been in the system for decades... with the caveat that, ya know, they're both narcissistic corrupt douchebags and actually have a clue as to what they're doing.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

If Betomania would’ve unseated Creepy Ted, I think that fact alone would’ve made him the strongest candidate, as the democrats could hopefully ride the back of the pride of Texas. It was preposterous that Beto could’ve won in Texas, but if he would’ve, Id say Texans are proud enough to have made it a close contest in 2020 if their blue senator was running.

With that being said, you don’t get elected to the senate and immediately run for president.

 

[bono_212]

If Betomania would’ve unseated Creepy Ted, I think that fact alone would’ve made him the strongest candidate, as the democrats could hopefully ride the back of the pride of Texas. It was preposterous that Beto could’ve won in Texas, but if he would’ve, Id say Texans are proud enough to have made it a close contest in 2020 if their blue senator was running.

With that being said, you don’t get elected to the senate and immediately run for president.

Oh don't you?

 

[womanfish]

yeah, fuck joe biden. obviously he's changed somewhat since this quote, but come on. if it was going to likely be a close contest then sure, being able to swing voters over from the other side on charisma alone is more of a factor, but the democrats can do way better than him in an election that's basically the left's to lose at this point now that impeachment has been ruled out.

This is so preposterous, i can't even believe you would post it. Quotes from 44 years ago! Jesus. Yeah, his views have changed a lot more than "somewhat". In fact going point by point his position is now opposite on all of the "conservative" views that he mentioned.
This is the same bullshit that was thrown at Clinton to divide the party last time around.
Remember that Warren was a Republican for most of her life as well. Things change.
Lets agree that he is infinitely better than Trump on every point and he can win. I'll take a moderate Democrat that I may disagree with on few issues that will unseat Trump, over the far left candidate that I may disagree with on a few issues but may very well lose to Trump any day.
I seriously don't think the country can sustain another 6 years of what we have been going through for 2. The courts will be decimated for the next half a century if Trump stays in place. But lets take 44 year old quotes and shoot ourselves in the foot again.

 

[anitram]

Beto also said his wife is at home raising their children "sometimes with my help." I think that sometimes men don't get just how gross statements like this are to us working women. If that's what he's got to offer, hard pass.

 

[DaveC]

lol i'm sure if bernie sanders had said those exact same words you'd say it's fair game to beat him over the head with that quote regardless of how long it's been, but okay then.

 

[womanfish]

lol i'm sure if bernie sanders had said those exact same words you'd say it's fair game to beat him over the head with that quote regardless of how long it's been, but okay then.

If Bernie had then changed his views from 44 years ago, it would be totally irrelevant to me in how i view him now.
I've made it clear that Bernie has a lot things from his past and more recent history that is pretty bad IMO, but I wouldn't say fuck Bernie. I would vote for Bernie any day. And he could beat Trump too.

 

[DaveC]

so what's the cut off point then where the shitty things that politicians said or did in their past gets a free pass? is it 10 years? 25? you need to set a hard time limit, otherwise that's such an arbitrary notion of cherry picking what "counts" from a candidate's past that you might as well just ignore everything about their history up to the moment they announced their run.

i guess i have to say this yet again already, but i think it's pretty self-evident that if i say "fuck candidate x" i certainly don't mean "don't vote for candidate x in the general election". if biden is the nominee against trump, then not voting for him would be a total moral and ethical failure.

that doesn't mean joe biden isn't near the bottom of the list of people i'd like to see in that spot, though.

 

[womanfish]

so what's the cut off point then where the shitty things that politicians said or did in their past gets a free pass? is it 10 years? 25? you need to set a hard time limit, otherwise that's such an arbitrary notion of cherry picking what "counts" from a candidate's past that you might as well just ignore everything about their history up to the moment they announced their run.

i guess i have to say this yet again already, but i think it's pretty self-evident that if i say "fuck candidate x" i certainly don't mean "don't vote for candidate x in the general election". if biden is the nominee against trump, then not voting for him would be a total moral and ethical failure.

that doesn't mean joe biden isn't near the bottom of the list of people i'd like to see in that spot, though.

Fair point on the last part. As for the first part, if someone had a stupid point of view a year or two ago, but had since changed that view to be one that i support, then I'm good with it. No set limit for me.
A good example is Obama and gay marriage. When he first ran, he didn't support it, or at least punted that subject with some non-committal answers.
He view changed. Gay marriage passed for the entire country. I wouldn't now take quotes from him 10 years ago and say he's homophobic or something.
Take Bernie on guns. His past with guns is pretty bad. His dealing with the NRA to secure his Senate win. His many votes against the Brady Bill, his support of the Charleston loophole, etc... But I think that when he ran last time, he saw that as a national candidate, these stances were not something the party appreciated very much. That, and now the bigger focus on mass shootings and school shootings, i think he would be a solid supporter of any gun restriction bills that got to his desk as President.

I just think this is way too common of a thing on the left. Why do we do this? Why do we strain to drudge up the past of candidates on certain issues even though their stance or attitude has changed, just to tear our side down? I've been guilty of doing it, but saw just how destructive it was when election day came. You really don't see it on the right. But they have a whole other deranged mindset that i don't care to try and figure out.