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Old 01-20-2019, 06:49 PM   #61
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Of course a BOYS Catholic school has no better business than transporting their pubescent students across state lines to march against women's rights to bodily integrity.
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Old 01-20-2019, 07:35 PM   #62
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Well if you gals would know your role they wouldn't have to
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:24 AM   #63
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Kamala Harris is running for President
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Old 01-21-2019, 11:22 AM   #64
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The Democratic field is a mess. So many candidates with major flaws in their connections and policy positions, and really no obvious answer. Worse yet, half of the discussion is based around re-litigating the 2016 election, while the other half is about how we need to stop talking about people's policies because criticizing Democrats is akin to supporting Donald Trump. This has probably been the most disheartening part of all of this for me. The idea that Democrats cannot be scrutinized for fear of aiding the other side is a dangerous one, and it removes any incentive for them to improve in a meaningful way.
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Old 01-21-2019, 11:43 AM   #65
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the other half is about how we need to stop talking about people's policies because criticizing Democrats is akin to supporting Donald Trump. This has probably been the most disheartening part of all of this for me. The idea that Democrats cannot be scrutinized for fear of aiding the other side is a dangerous one, and it removes any incentive for them to improve in a meaningful way.
this. i got jumped on a few weeks ago in the previous thread here in FYM when i pointed out that beto's refusal to commit to any actual left-wing policy positions is worrisome. apparently i was "fight(ing) with our friends" and "doing it wrong".
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Old 01-21-2019, 02:11 PM   #66
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I think people were fooled by the fact that he opposed Ted Cruz and made some good statements about police brutality. They think of that and assume his politics are farther to the left than they are. O'Rourke is not a lefty by any stretch.
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Old 01-21-2019, 04:42 PM   #67
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https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...-controversies
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New tensions are flaring on the Senate Judiciary Committee over plans by newly minted Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) to dig into Obama-era scandals.

Graham, a close ally of President Trump’s, has outlined several areas he wants to probe now that he has the Judiciary Committee gavel.

They include the FBI’s handling of its investigation into Hillary Clinton’s private email server
and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant applications targeting former Trump campaign aide Carter Page.
It's like a mental illness with these people.
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Old 01-21-2019, 04:59 PM   #68
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There's debating policy and then there's ignoring the greater evil.

I have zero interest in seeing Bernie Sanders elected president. Zero.

Well, almost zero. If it's Sanders or Trump, you better believe I'm voting for Bernie.

What worries those who are more towards the middle is that this won't be reciprocated by those on the left if the ultimate candidate ends up being someone who's closer to the middle.

It's not an irrational fear, either, based on 2016.
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:57 PM   #69
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The percentage of Clinton primary voters who refused to vote for Obama in 2008 was significantly higher than the percentage of Sanders voters who refused to vote for Clinton in 2016. Her loss to Trump was not because of Sanders supporters, and it would be ill-advised to go into 2020 thinking the issue was a lack of willingness on the part of those on the left to support a centrist like Clinton. That only leads to everything continuing to move to the right.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:21 PM   #70
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The more I see of Beto O'Rourke, the less I like him to be honest. I think that people should be able to say that without criticism. It should be understood that any final nominee should receive full support from all sane people in America who are able to cast a vote.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:48 PM   #71
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The percentage of Clinton primary voters who refused to vote for Obama in 2008 was significantly higher than the percentage of Sanders voters who refused to vote for Clinton in 2016. Her loss to Trump was not because of Sanders supporters, and it would be ill-advised to go into 2020 thinking the issue was a lack of willingness on the part of those on the left to support a centrist like Clinton. That only leads to everything continuing to move to the right.
I didn't say Clinton lost because of Sanders voters staying home. Or Johnson voters. Or Stein voters. Or those who voted for Trump because whatever, they're all the same.

But when you add all that up, and consider the crazy small margin of victory he had?

Yea, it fucking mattered.

The difference? Maybe not; but it wasn't inconsequential.

I don't believe this race will be as close because Independent voters have been able to see Trump for who he really is. But this is no time for fucking around.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:49 PM   #72
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The more I see of Beto O'Rourke, the less I like him to be honest. I think that people should be able to say that without criticism. It should be understood that any final nominee should receive full support from all sane people in America who are able to cast a vote.
Absolutely
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:30 PM   #73
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This is why we have primaries. To figure this stuff out.

But if anyone thinks we have the luxury of flattering ourselves with some kind of vanity vote that is for anyone other than the Democratic nominee in order to underscore our own virtue, then go fuck yourself.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:00 AM   #74
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This is why we have primaries. To figure this stuff out.

But if anyone thinks we have the luxury of flattering ourselves with some kind of vanity vote that is for anyone other than the Democratic nominee in order to underscore our own virtue, then go fuck yourself.
I generally agree with this sentiment. It is how I proceeded with my voting in 2016. And while I think it is bad practice for any candidate to proceed as if they are entitled to votes, or that being better than the Republican candidate is all that is required to deserve victory, as a voter I understand how one needs to approach a presidential general election. Full stop.

My issue comes in how people approach the primaries. I see legitimate critiques of a bunch of these candidates, and often see blow back that it is aiding Trump. A good example is with Kamala Harris' announcement yesterday. Harris has a terrible record as a prosecutor. If you removed references to her name and just looked at which did as attorney general, you would likely assume she was a Republican. And yet I see people saying that it is a smear campaign to bring this up. This visceral defense of anyone with a "D" next to their name frightens me.

The Democratic primary itself is also a mess. The super delegate system is specifically designed to allow the party to bend the perception of how things are going to deter the voters from swinging things too far. The inconsistency of closed/open primaries from state-to-state, and putting great value into states that don't swing the general election also makes the process more confounding.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:57 AM   #75
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i'd be all for removing the 19th century notion of a caucus as well.

i agree that primaries should vet candidates, and we should approach with our values in mind, however, you cannot have a primary without an eye on the general and who will perform best in the general where independent voters will likely determine the outcome (as they always have, as they did in 2018), and in a general, yes, literally anyone with a "D" next to their name is better than Donald Trump.
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