US Politics IV

[Moonlit_Angel]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-trump-still-pushing-obama-birtherism

Of course he is .

But nope, he's totally not a racist at all.

I really hope there's something big occurring with all this stuff related to Flynn that will break very, very soon, something that can assuredly sink Trump once and for all. He honest to God cannot leave the White House fast enough at this point.

 

[BEAL]

The saddest part about all of this is that the GOP could do something about this. They could have ended this at any number of issues that have come up since day fucking one.

Instead, they are so afraid of the Trump base that they're willing to allow our country, and potentially the world fall into complete and utter chaos (more so than usual). The GOP could still do what they want with Pence, and Trump isn't even a "real" republican.

But it comes down to fear of losing their seats in 2018, and 2020. Enough of a backlash by the deplorables, and the Dems take over

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Completely agreed. It's especially frustrating that any attempts at impeachment, or pushing for it, will be seen as "partisan" because the GOP doesn't have enough of a spine to actually do anything and lend their support to the Democrats. This could be such a perfect opportunity for both parties to put aside their differences and work together, to show the citizens they truly care about the safety and future of our country by trying to rein Trump in, if not ousting him altogether so that the adults can actually do their jobs.

But nope. Can't have that, I guess. The GOP has just completely lost the plot altogether. Their thought process and actions are just so alien and bizarre.

The GOP could still do what they want with Pence, and Trump isn't even a "real" republican.

YES. That's the part that mystifies me, too. If they really want their agenda to go through, you'd think they'd stick with somebody who isn't the kind of negative distraction that Trump is, somebody who could actually get things done for them, and who fits more with their precious "traditional Christian values" agenda.

But it comes down to fear of losing their seats in 2018, and 2020. Enough of a backlash by the deplorables, and the Dems take over

And it says something about them that they care more about those people and their ignorant, backwards views than they do any other voters.

If they do lose in the midterms, and lose big at that, I'm going to laugh. They would absolutely deserve that kind of loss, and would only have themselves to blame for it happening.

 

[Nick66]

In their own way Democrats are just as invested as Trump remaining in the WH as Republicans are. There's a reason why no member of the Democratic leadership has called for Trump's impeachment.

 

[BEAL]

In their own way Democrats are just as invested as Trump remaining in the WH as Republicans are. There's a reason why no member of the Democratic leadership has called for Trump's impeachment.

I can kinda see this, but I also don't know what good it does the Dems to call for something that they cannot control.

They are already the snowflake party, and by constantly focusing on removing Trump it could be seen as them being sore losers and too sensitive.

I would like to see them stand up to him a little more though. Don't have to call for impeachment every day, but maybe just call out how fucking stupid his decisions are.

They need to take a page out of Trump/Bernie's book and literally dumb down their message about "Tax cuts for 1% BAD!!!" "Healthcare for all Good!"

We learned with Clinton that policy talk is boring and no one cares. You need a good slogan and brand

 

[Irvine511]

In their own way Democrats are just as invested as Trump remaining in the WH as Republicans are. There's a reason why no member of the Democratic leadership has called for Trump's impeachment.

While there’s some political strategy in using Trump as the albatross that gets them back the house and maybe senate in 2018 (still a bad map for them, tho), there’s realistically not much they can do as a minority party. And if they were to start calling for impeachment now, it would eat a bit “boil the frog” for when it really could happen, either after the Russia collusion is revealed, they win back the house, or another 15 women come forward.

 

[Nick66]

It's not really a question of not calling for it because they can't control the process or pull it off. The minority party calls for stuff they can't control and has zero chance of happening all the time. That's what minority parties do. You could argue that they should call for it just to make stand (as some of the more progressive members of Congress have done...though notably not in the leadership). Nothing would ever happen unless Pelosi and Schemer signed on. And they wouldn't do it unless a majority of their caucus was behind the idea.

But the reason they don't is for the same reason Republicans stick with him....the 2018 midterms. If Republicans turn on Trump, it depresses their base and they're afraid (with good reason) that they'll get decimated in the elections.

On the other hand, if Dems call for Trump's impeachment, it only motivates Trump's base. It also could look like overreach, ala the GOP and Bill Clinton, and backfire. I'm not comparing Clinton's bad behaviour to Trump's insanity, just pointing that it is a political concern that the Democratic leadership seems cognisant of. And keep in mind Dems have to win in Trump states and districts if they're going to have a chance of taking back Congress.

And of course, if they somehow succeeded in getting rid of Trump, they wouldn't have him to run against anymore. No matter what you think of Pence's politics, he puts on a much more reasonable face than Trump and could actually be much more effective in moving the conservative agenda, which at the moment is stalled under Trump. I don't think Democrats want that either. What they have now is a buffoon in the WH that can't get stuff done. It's great for the party, even if it's not so good for America.

I'm not saying there's equivalence between Republicans enabling Trump and Democrats benefiting from his sheer awfulness and unpopularity. But both parties are in fact acting politically. Which after all is what politicians do.

On a completely different note, Aaron Sorkin recently gave the best one line description of Trump I've ever read. I literally LOL'd when I read it..."Trump is exactly what he looks like: a really dumb guy with an observable psychiatric disorder"

 

[BEAL]

I see there's a trend on social media about NBC to release the Apprentice Tapes since they fired Matt Lauer over allegations.

 

[corianderstem]

You know what? No matter what he's saying or doing on those tapes, it won't make any difference.

 

[Nick66]

NBC doesn't have those tapes, and I don't believe they even owned that show.

And even if they did, and released them, as Cori said it wouldn't make a difference.

 

[BEAL]

I agree.

Trump was correct when he said he could shoot someone and get away with it. The White House Press Secretary would just claim Trump is allowing a discussion on murder to finally happen in this country

 

[TheFox]

So NK launched the Hwasong 15 last night (Google for the photos of it, it's a beast). No doubt most of the US mainland could be in reach of a nuke on this. Let's hope Trump doesn't think it's a good idea for a pre emptive strike!
The US has to get their deterrence game together and Trump stop his insane Tweets.

 

[Nick66]

I've been told it's no big deal. Nothing to worry about. Apparently the only payload those missles are capable of delivering is rotten kimchi.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I believe Mark Burnett owns the Apprentice tapes. He wouldn't release them during the campaign. One rumor is that Trump uses the n word in those tapes.

 

[Nick66]

Well there goes the black vote.

 

[anitram]

While there’s some political strategy in using Trump as the albatross that gets them back the house and maybe senate in 2018 (still a bad map for them, tho), there’s realistically not much they can do as a minority party. And if they were to start calling for impeachment now, it would eat a bit “boil the frog” for when it really could happen, either after the Russia collusion is revealed, they win back the house, or another 15 women come forward.

I think that the main reason is that they are still a party not sure where they stand, half of them are obsessed to this day with the mythical disenfranchised economically anxious midwestern white man who kind of likes Trump so they don't want to blow it by alienating him. They have just never been an effective opposition party, the Republicans are much better at that.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Videos from UK white supremacists.

Something big must be coming.

WASHINGTON — President Trump’s son-in-law and adviser, Jared Kushner, met this month with investigators working for Robert S. Mueller, the special counsel, and answered questions about a meeting with a Russian ambassador during the presidential transition, according to a person briefed on the investigation.

 

[BEAL]

So NK launched the Hwasong 15 last night (Google for the photos of it, it's a beast). No doubt most of the US mainland could be in reach of a nuke on this. Let's hope Trump doesn't think it's a good idea for a pre emptive strike!
The US has to get their deterrence game together and Trump stop his insane Tweets.

What game would that be? What pressure can we realistically apply to China, who seems to be the one nation who can do something non military ?

Do we have any hope in Trump, Pence, or Tillerson being able to negotiate ?

 

[TheFox]

I've been told it's no big deal. Nothing to worry about. Apparently the only payload those missles are capable of delivering is rotten kimchi.

That's the sort of "head in the sand" attitude that will get the US nuked. That ICBM is a beast and could easily carry a nuke.

 

[TheFox]

What game would that be? What pressure can we realistically apply to China, who seems to be the one nation who can do something non military ?

Do we have any hope in Trump, Pence, or Tillerson being able to negotiate ?

Detterence, not "maximum pressure" and crazy Tweets and insults. There also should be a "freeze for freeze" offer and some sort of offer of deescalation. Its all heading in an incredible bad direction at this point. NK is a nuclear state at this point and all the USs hammering on about denuclearisation at this point will solve nothing.

 

[BEAL]

They are not at at nuclear state. No one anywhere has admitted such.

While i am concerned i also know there is literally nothing i can do at this point. If something is out of my control, i refuse to let it consume my mind with worry and fear.

If we are gonna get nuked, I’d rather spend my end of days enjoying the little things versus what could be.

It is in no ones interest for NK to nuke anyone

 

[LuckyNumber7]

That's the sort of "head in the sand" attitude that will get the US nuked. That ICBM is a beast and could easily carry a nuke.

Good god I hope you're being sarcastic.

 

[TheFox]

Good god I hope you're being sarcastic.

Sadly not and the whole of the US mainland is in reach, in fact only parts of Africa and South America aren't. This test was as big as the thermonuclear test they did a few months ago. They pretty much are all there for their tech.

 

[IWasBored]

I just assume Dave has been avoiding this thread lately.

Also, I’m looking forward to the day he comes along and tells us his name is actually Mike or Steve or something and his last name doesn’t even start with a C.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Sadly not and the whole of the US mainland is in reach, in fact only parts of Africa and South America aren't. This test was as big as the thermonuclear test they did a few months ago. They pretty much are all there for their tech.

I'm talking about your hysteria associated with that rocket being "a beast" able to carry a nuke or whatever.

This is an entirely expected development that was not a difficult part of their technological roadmap towards nuclear armament.

War mongerers like Lindsey Graham want you to feel like you're threatened. Like this was a huge deal. Like NK has finally figured something critical out. This isn't true. This is neither critical nor difficult. It was expected and could have been expedited a long time ago.

 

[TheFox]

I'm talking about your hysteria associated with that rocket being "a beast" able to carry a nuke or whatever.

This is an entirely expected development that was not a difficult part of their technological roadmap towards nuclear armament.

War mongerers like Lindsey Graham want you to feel like you're threatened. Like this was a huge deal. Like NK has finally figured something critical out. This isn't true. This is neither critical nor difficult. It was expected and could have been expedited a long time ago.

Yeah, it's totally expected and just another step on their armament. I feel more threatened by the warmongers and miscalculation as theres little doubt NK would heavily retaliate if even Trump launched a limited strike which crazy people like Graham seem to want.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

So I think the actual situation here lies somewhere between LN7's "this is no big deal at all" and TheFox's "OHHH MY GOD WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!"

 

[BEAL]

My concern in all of this is the GOP. They want war. The generals want war. Trump wants war.

NK wants a deterrent. I consider Trump more mental than Kim. Kim may be more prone to killing anyone who stands up against him, but i think Trump would do the same thing if he could.

China has no reason to stop NK from getting nukes. They don’t want the USA closer to their border. We have very limited negotiating power against China.

Are we gonna tell them we won’t trade or use any product made in their country? What if China wants to collect the debt ?

I do wonder if Clinton gets elected if we are in the same situation? Does NK have 20+ tests in the same timespan ? Or does NK consider us weaker due to our current administration?

 

[Nick66]

I don't think Clinton being elected would have changed what North Korea is doing one bit. They've been playing this game for 20+ years, with a Republican and two Democratic governments. Clinton certainly wouldn't be posturing like Trump (well, at least in the same way as Trump), but North Korea wants those weapons, it doesn't matter who is in power.

 

[DaveC]

I just assume Dave has been avoiding this thread lately.

Also, I’m looking forward to the day he comes along and tells us his name is actually Mike or Steve or something and his last name doesn’t even start with a C.

i've been reading the thread like usual, but keeping my mouth shut on this lately because i've realized that it's a total waste of time and effort. chicken little's gonna chicken little.

and about my handle or you'll blow my cover, comrade. i can't afford to get in trouble at the troll factory or they'll take away my vodka ration and deport me back to canada.