US Politics III

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They are not the same. I was wondering if you didn't get that or if you were just a liar.
So if Trump calls the wall a "fence" - and the US pays for this fence - then you are okay with it?
 
Shall we tally up all the incidents of white supremacist violence against minorities? Do you really think that antifa even comes anywhere close?
Recent or past? And what is your definition of a white supremacist? Anyone who voted for Trump?

If I tossed antifa into the larger group we call the Left, which would include Bolsheviks, then it is a no brainer - since the Left murdered over 100 million people since 1917.
 
I'm sure AEON thought that Nelson Mandela and his supporters were terrorists like antifa. After all, they were violent. And there was violence on BOTH SIDES.

With respect to the wall, I don't understand, AEON, why you'd make an idiot of yourself contorting into a pretzel arguing on behalf of a piece of shit like Trump. Really quite bizarre.

I wonder how peaceful and loving South Africa is these days...
 
Recent or past? And what is your definition of a white supremacist? Anyone who voted for Trump?

If I tossed antifa into the larger group we call the Left, which would include Bolsheviks, then it is a no brainer - since the Left murdered over 100 million people since 1917.
Why would you do that? I don't think anyone in here is tossing white supremacists and neo-Nazis in with "the right". Stop brushing people who lean one way with the same brush.
 
Indeed, that's exactly why they exist. Antifa aim to protect the vulnerable from those who seek to harm them.
Isn't that the same reason the Klan claims to exist? And like the Klan, these "noble" protectors need to hide their faces...
 
Why would you do that? I don't think anyone in here is tossing white supremacists and neo-Nazis in with "the right". Stop brushing people who lean one way with the same brush.

That's exactly my point. Antifa attacked Trump supporters for wearing MAGA hats. They attacked a campus for hosting Milo (a gay Jewish man - not your garden variety Nazi). You say that antifa only exists to wipe out this bucket of so-called neo-nazis, and then dump anybody that doesn't agree with you (or votes conservative) into that bucket.

About 63 million US citizens voted for Trump - are they all racists? Are they all deserving of whatever violence antifa seems necessary to protect the non-Trump voters?

I fail to see how antifa is not the Left's modern equivalent of the Klan.
 
Still contorting...

How so? Did Bill Clinton not expand the wall/fence? Did Hillary Clinton not support the wall/fence as a senator and then as a presidential candidate? Are you suggesting that these candidates did not support securing our border with Mexico with physical "barriers"?

Also, please review these clips again and point out where these two equate border security with racism:



 
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How so? Did Bill Clinton not expand the wall/fence? Did Hillary Clinton not support the wall/fence as a senator and then as a presidential candidate? Are you suggesting that these candidates did not support securing our border with Mexico with physical "barriers"



Also, please review these clips again and point out where these two equate border security with racism:











Border security does not equal racism.

No one has ever made that claim. You're dancing with a strawman.

Building a wall, and building your campaign around a wall doesn't make you a racist, it makes you an idiot. It shows you don't understand the issue. Chanting "build that wall" makes you even a bigger idiot and shows you know even less about the issue.

Using people's fear and building fear of brown people is racist. Throwing all Mexicans into one basket regardless if citizen or not is racist.

Your attempt at equivalency is sad.
 
They are only a problem for those who are/wish to protect fascists.

Hi Vlad, when you have a moment, I'm still waiting on your clear definition of "fascist." This is important since you're advocating violence against them...
 
Border security does not equal racism.
Agreed

No one has ever made that claim. You're dancing with a strawman.
Disagree. Many people, especially college kids (antifa recruiting ground) have equated securing the border with Mexico as racist.





Building a wall, and building your campaign around a wall doesn't make you a racist, -.
Agreed



Using people's fear and building fear of brown people is racist.
What are brown people? Who fears these brown people?(it's not your normal option on a job application). Are Mexicans "brown people" now?

Throwing all Mexicans into one basket regardless if citizen or not is racist.
Agreed. Who is doing that?

Your attempt at equivalency is sad.
Attempted? Nothing but net...

And yes, it is sad to see so many claim that conservatives are racists for supporting the very same (and very reasonable) policies that both Clintons fervently endorsed and funded.
 
I fail to see how antifa is not the Left's modern equivalent of the Klan.

Sweet merciful Jesus.

You ACTUALLY HAVE THE KLAN. You know, voting for your guy and saying that he is "fulfilling the promise."
 
AEON, I'm half Mexican and have been told to go back to Mexico just because of the color of my skin. Funny, they don't tell me to go back to Scotland or Sweden, just Mexico. It is racism.
Trump began his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists, saying Mexico doesn't send it's best. He directly insulted MY Family who crossed to make a better life for themselves.
His election has brought white supremacy back into the mainstream. This is ALL because a segment of the US population is threatened that the minorities they have been oppressing since the founding of this country are standing up for themselves. They are threatened because these minorities are now demanding to be treated equally.

I get it, you're a white man. You have never had to live with people assuming you're the maid or nanny because of the color of your skin. You've never had to fear for your life when stopped by a police officer just because of the color of your skin. You've never been denied a job because your name doesn't sound white. You've never been denied a promotion because of your gender. But you cannot deny that this happens with regularity in the US.
 
Yes, indeed it has been suggested. The very concept of this unseen force of white privilege relies on this to be true. That white people, at a minimum, are passively racist.



This is a blatant misrepresentation of what white privilege is and it's typical of your posts to misrepresent and misinterpret these concepts which are pretty easy to understand. White privilege doesn't mean that all white people are racist. And white people who actively work to end racism in their communities aren't racist.
 
AEON, I'm half Mexican and have been told to go back to Mexico just because of the color of my skin. Funny, they don't tell me to go back to Scotland or Sweden, just Mexico. It is racism.
Trump began his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists, saying Mexico doesn't send it's best. He directly insulted MY Family who crossed to make a better life for themselves.
His election has brought white supremacy back into the mainstream. This is ALL because a segment of the US population is threatened that the minorities they have been oppressing since the founding of this country are standing up for themselves. They are threatened because these minorities are now demanding to be treated equally.

I get it, you're a white man. You have never had to live with people assuming you're the maid or nanny because of the color of your skin. You've never had to fear for your life when stopped by a police officer just because of the color of your skin. You've never been denied a job because your name doesn't sound white. You've never been denied a promotion because of your gender. But you cannot deny that this happens with regularity in the US.



Thank you for this. My mom is a teacher in a predominantly Hispanic area and has seen a big uptick in anti-Latinx racism since the election. And this isn't just happening in her school, but schools all over the country. Trump's election has brought back the ugliest elements of American society who are now emboldened by his administration.
 
If I tossed antifa into the larger group we call the Left, which would include Bolsheviks, then it is a no brainer - since the Left murdered over 100 million people since 1917.

so now that you're taking us down this road, you're okay with us associating all the crimes of nazi germany, imperial japan, the pinochet regime and every other murderous fascist dictatorship of the 20th century with the american right wing, i presume?
 
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Disagree. Many people, especially college kids (antifa recruiting ground) have equated securing the border with Mexico as racist.




We're all adults here, let's act like it.

We can all find videos of people saying stupid shit.















What are brown people? Who fears these brown people?(it's not your normal option on a job application). Are Mexicans "brown people" now?
There are many who fear others with different skin color, I mean they're rapists and killers.



Agreed. Who is doing that?
Trump, I showed you several examples. You conveniently never responded.







And yes, it is sad to see so many claim that conservatives are racists for supporting the very same (and very reasonable) policies that both Clintons fervently endorsed and funded.

But it's not the same policy. Stop lying, just stop. If you don't understand the difference in their policies and understanding, then don't comment, but don't pretend, it makes you look desperate.

Billions spent on a wall won't stop a thing. First of all the wall can't be built, it's physically impossible. Secondly, smugglers are using drones and other methods across the border. So championing a wall just makes one look petty and ignorant.
 
Border security does not equal racism.

No one has ever made that claim. You're dancing with a strawman.

Building a wall, and building your campaign around a wall doesn't make you a racist, it makes you an idiot. It shows you don't understand the issue. Chanting "build that wall" makes you even a bigger idiot and shows you know even less about the issue.

Using people's fear and building fear of brown people is racist. Throwing all Mexicans into one basket regardless if citizen or not is racist.

Your attempt at equivalency is sad.

This. Thank you.

To say nothing of the fact that Trump's sitting here blathering on about how Mexico will pay for this wall he wants to build even though he knows full well that's not going to happen, and Mexico has explicitly stated it ain't going to happen, thus meaning us Americans will be stuck footing the bill. But since Trump ignores and refuses to address that rather important fact and keeps pushing this pet project of his anyway, it's just further proof of how full of shit he truly is.

Also, trojan, sorry to hear about the horrible things you and your family have had to experience. That's another thing that always gets me-I'll hear people say that they don't have a problem with immigrants in and of themselves, they just have a problem with those who come here illegally and don't understand why it's so bad to punish illegal immigrants.

And all I think is, "Right, because racists and xenophobes totally take the time to differentiate between the legal and illegal immigrants before supporting policies that punish them, and totally treat white immigrants the same way they do non-white immigrants."
 
AEON, I'm half Mexican and have been told to go back to Mexico just because of the color of my skin. Funny, they don't tell me to go back to Scotland or Sweden, just Mexico.
Are you half Scottish or Swedish? Why would anyone assume you are from those two countries? Is there nationwide problem illegal immigration from Scotland or Sweden? And some context would be helpful...are white people randomly walking up to you and yelling, "Go back to Mexico!"

Trump began his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists, saying Mexico doesn't send it's best. He directly insulted MY Family who crossed to make a better life for themselves.
Did he really say all Mexicans are rapists? Or was he calling out the issue of prosecuting some illegal immigrants (for crimes not associated with their immigration - crimes any person should stand trial for) because of the Sanctuary Cities?


His election has brought white supremacy back into the mainstream.
No, the media is doing that.

This is ALL because a segment of the US population is threatened that the minorities they have been oppressing since the founding of this country are standing up for themselves. They are threatened because these minorities are now demanding to be treated equally.
I agree. Everyone is equal and the government should not endorse any sort of racial bias.

I get it, you're a white man. You have never had to live with people assuming you're the maid or nanny because of the color of your skin.
True, I'm not regularly confused with a maid or nanny. However, it is assumed that I am privileged for being of European descent in a nation that (until recently) mostly populated by humans of European descent. Do you accuse Japanese of "Japanese Privilege" in Japan?

You've never had to fear for your life when stopped by a police officer just because of the color of your skin.
Are the police randomly shooting "Mexicans" now? Where I live, most of the police are Latino.

You've never been denied a job because your name doesn't sound white.
Are white men the only race and gender guilty of this particular bias?

You've never been denied a promotion because of your gender.
It is good to see that you still believe that genders do exist. Otherwise - if there is no gender, gender discrimination cannot exist.
 
I'm half white, that half of the family is from Sweden and Scotland. What I'm saying is that people look at me, hear my last name and assume I'm Mexican. They don't care that I don't speak Spanish, that I'm 2nd generation. They see the brown skin and think I'm less than them. You don't have to believe me but that's my experience.

I will refrain from saying what's really on my mind here since I don't want to get banned/suspended, so I'm done responding to you since you refuse to interact on a good faith basis and instead deflect everything. You and your idiot president are pitiful.
 
We can all find videos of people saying stupid shit. .
I am glad that you agree that border security is not racist.

There are many who fear others with different skin color,
"many" does not equal "most"

I mean they're rapists and killers.
All those who rape and murder should be prosecuted.

But it's not the same policy. Stop lying, just stop. If you don't understand the difference in their policies and understanding, then don't comment
How is it different?

From Huffington Post article: Bill Clinton And Barack Obama Laid The Groundwork For Trump’s Immigration Policies

"To those who have been following deportation politics in this country, Trump’s policies, as they are now unfolding, have an eerie resonance. They seem to be growing directly out of policies first instituted in the presidencies of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. True, President Obama liked to talk about “our tradition of welcoming immigrants,” while our new president has tossed such liberal humanitarian rhetoric in the garbage can, instead playing up a harsh nativism. Still, the fact is that two Democratic presidents laid the groundwork for Trump’s developing policies.

It was, after all, President Clinton who oversaw the draconian “Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigration Responsibility Act” of 1996. It drastically increased all levels of immigration “enforcement,” expanding the Border Patrol, criminalizing numerous types of low-level immigration violations, and facilitating and expanding deportation procedures. (A similar emphasis on casting blame on individuals for structural and systemic problems was also at the heart of Clinton’s welfare reform of that same year."


Source: Bill Clinton And Barack Obama Laid The Groundwork For Trump’s Immigration Policies | HuffPost
 
so now that you're taking us down this road, you're okay with us associating all the crimes of nazi germany, imperial japan, the pinochet regime and every other murderous fascist dictatorship of the 20th century with the american right wing, i presume?

i'd like an answer, please.
 
Like I said, he's willing to make a total fool of himself for Trump.
 
I am glad that you agree that border security is not racist.



"many" does not equal "most"



All those who rape and murder should be prosecuted.



How is it different?



From Huffington Post article: Bill Clinton And Barack Obama Laid The Groundwork For Trump’s Immigration Policies



"To those who have been following deportation politics in this country, Trump’s policies, as they are now unfolding, have an eerie resonance. They seem to be growing directly out of policies first instituted in the presidencies of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. True, President Obama liked to talk about “our tradition of welcoming immigrants,” while our new president has tossed such liberal humanitarian rhetoric in the garbage can, instead playing up a harsh nativism. Still, the fact is that two Democratic presidents laid the groundwork for Trump’s developing policies.



It was, after all, President Clinton who oversaw the draconian “Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigration Responsibility Act” of 1996. It drastically increased all levels of immigration “enforcement,” expanding the Border Patrol, criminalizing numerous types of low-level immigration violations, and facilitating and expanding deportation procedures. (A similar emphasis on casting blame on individuals for structural and systemic problems was also at the heart of Clinton’s welfare reform of that same year."




Source: Bill Clinton And Barack Obama Laid The Groundwork For Trump’s Immigration Policies | HuffPost



This has grown tiresome.

No one in here, and no one running was ever saying border security was racist. If you have to continually lie to believe in your ideology than your ideology is false.

Never said "most", if you have to twist in order to always make your point than your point was never worth making.

There was never a point being made that rape shouldn't be prosecuted. If you can't be honest, then just please stop posting. I will welcome a differing opinion everyday of the week, but not dishonesty.




Clinton and Obama's policies were multifaceted plans that showed understanding of a complex issue.

Trump's policy was a wall and a ban.
 
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