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Old 03-22-2003, 12:09 PM   #16
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http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/275530.html

I just don't understand why we don't support the palestinians more?

Quote:
Pro-Iraqi faction says asked to give money to Palestinians
Meanwhile, a pro-Iraqi faction in the West Bank and Gaza Strip said it has been asked by the Iraqi government to speed up delivery of checks of US$10,000 each to the families of Palestinian civilians, gunmen and suicide bombers killed in fighting with Israel.

A spokesman for the group, Mohanna Shabat, said Saddam gave the order to show that while he's under threat from American and British forces he's still supporting the Palestinians and influential in the Arab world.

Throughout 30 months of fighting, the pro-Iraqi Arab Liberation Front had been making payments once every two weeks. But in the last week, Saddam's money has been distributed in five ceremonies in Gaza alone.

Three families received the money Friday in Gaza.

"The ceremony, God willing, will not be the last because President Saddam
Hussein will continue his support to the Palestinian people, who are part of his Arab nation," Shabat said.
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Old 03-22-2003, 03:09 PM   #17
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Hi,

I don't know where you got the number 15 billion but U.S. foreign aid to Egypt, is pegged at two-thirds of U.S. foreign aid to Israel, and averages $2.2 billion per year. As mentioned Israel aid will increase soon to 10 billion. My concern is that Egypt is a third world country, with escalating poverty and needs foreign aid... We can go into the reasons why Egypt is getting aid, but I won't.

On the other hand, Israel is one of the most prosperous nations in the world, and their aid is ballooning to 10 billion. I've already mentioned what I think the aid is for in a previous post.

I'll talk about the illegal occupation of Palestine in a future post, maybe later today or tommorrow, but for now, I gotta split.

later
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Old 03-22-2003, 03:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V



The Us gives 15(need to double check this number but I know i's more than israel) billion in aid to egypt every year....maybe ppl forgot to mention that stat?

Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid.
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Old 03-22-2003, 06:43 PM   #19
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ok I mis read my state 15 billion was an amount given over time



but..the aid given to israel according to this is 2.8 billion and to egypt it's 2.2 billion...it's comparable in amount.



Now.....my question is..why should we give more aid to egypt


I can name 100 countries more deserving of more aid than egypt..a country that is just waiting for islamic johad to take it over.


my argument is still solid....by far.



"When asked about the amount of aid the US sends to Israel, a majority says the amount is too much. Even after September 11, in response to an October 2001 Newsweek poll (that mentioned the amount of aid to Israel--$2.8 billion), 52% said that the amount the US sends to Israel is "too much" (right amount 35%, too little 3%). This lower level of support may be due in part to the fact that the amount of aid was mentioned -- in a 1995 PIPA poll that also mentioned the amount of aid to Israel and Egypt, 56% wanted to spend less. [4] Also, the Newsweek poll asked whether the US is spending too much, not whether the US should reduce the level, which may explain why it seems to contradict the modest support found in other recent questions. Some Americans may feel unhappy about the level of spending but nonetheless feel that the US should not take the strong step of cutting it. Other polls have also shown that respondents are quicker to say that the US spends too much on an item than they are to say they favor the actual step of cutting it.

Aid to Egypt

The few questions that have asked about aid to Egypt have found levels of support that are just a bit lower than support for Israel. In a November 1998 Gallup poll 47% were supportive of the current US level of economic aid (kept same 42%, increased 5%). In the same poll support for aid levels to Israel was 52% (kept same 42%, increased 10%). In a 1994 survey 39% favored the same or more aid to Egypt, while 44% preferred to cut or stop it. In the same poll, support for the same or more aid to Israel was 47%, while 44% wanted to cut or stop it. [5]

More recently, in an October 2001 Newsweek poll that told respondents how much the US gives in aid to Egypt ($2.2 billion), 55% said this amount was too much, while 30% said that it was the right amount and 3% said it was too little. This was only slightly higher than the percentage saying the US gives too much to Israel (52%). [6]"
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Old 03-22-2003, 07:24 PM   #20
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I cant say I see how being for Palestinian freedom is being anti-semetic. People insist on seeing things in black and white these days. Anti-War = Pro-Saddam = Anti-American

Anyone with any sense knows that suicide bombings are an abomination. As are Israeli incursions into the West Bank. There's a simple solution to all of this.

Why exactly are Israel getting US aid anyway? Its not like they are a 3rd World country. Shouldnt aid money be going to feeding people who havent enough to eat?
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Old 03-22-2003, 08:20 PM   #21
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I'm not sure how this became a discussion about what Egypt deserves.

Anyway, I don't believe the $10 billion should go to Israel when Africa is getting $2 billion next year for AIDS. That's a whole continent. What a joke.
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Old 03-22-2003, 09:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I'm not sure how this became a discussion about what Egypt deserves.

Anyway, I don't believe the $10 billion should go to Israel when Africa is getting $2 billion next year for AIDS. That's a whole continent. What a joke.
that I TOTTALLY agree with.
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Old 03-22-2003, 11:40 PM   #23
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I thought I'd fill you in on why the US supports Egypt to become the number 2 recipient of US foreign aid.

Aid to Egypt = Aid to Israel.

I'll tell you why.

Since the conquest of Palestine in 1948, the U.S. has had a strategic commitment to Israel.

Firstly, this relationship is pretty much driven and sustained by domestic political forces in the United States. I.E. American Jewish lobbyists who consider Israel, a homeland for all Jews.

Secondly, the survival of Israel, as well as strong economic and politcal ties with Israel - a westernized democratic state in the middle east is essential to American interests - you know, oil.

Anyways, Egypt receives a high level of aid because those forces, and administration officials, rightly view peace between Egypt and Israel as vital to the security of the Jewish state.

Aid to Egypt (and to Jordan and the Palestinian Authority) is largely derivative of aid to Israel. The political purposes of aid to Egypt were and remain: to reward the Egyptians for making and maintaining peace with Israel. But you also have other factors like development assistance, and food aid to create a link between peace and a more open, prosperous society; and to secure a strategic relationship between Egypt and the United States. It's all about keeping the peace. Since the beginning.

So pretty much, by that measure it's aid to Israel (10 billion) + aid to Egypt (2.2 billion) + aid to Jordan (????) + aid to the Palestinians (?????)= aid to Isreal ---- That's who knows how many billions of American Taxpayers money going to aid Israel, keep the peace, and maintain American interests. WOW......


As far as the 67 war goes, Israel wouldn't have won without American support - financial and military (equipment donations). That goes for the 1948 as well.

I'm just glad I'm not an American paying taxes right now... Especially seeing where their money is being allocated in such troubled times.

As far as Palestine goes, a tragedy of our century. A people dispossessed. I hope one day Palestine will one day become a sovereign state once again, along side Israel. I hope the Palestinian culture will be able to rise up against 55 years of oppression and aggression. But in such times, it's hard to be optimistic.

They need to lose their rotten leadership, and find themselves a Martin Luther King or a Nelson Mandela to appeal to the masses, domestically and internationally

later
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Old 03-23-2003, 01:08 AM   #24
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I dont care why the dollars go there...they still go to egypt
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Old 03-24-2003, 01:23 PM   #25
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ARUN? The islamic world could learn a lot from india.....too bad they invaded india and sold hindus into slavery perhaps constituting the most peaceful interaction between hindus and muslims. ...but --------------------

Excuse me, give justice to what you are saying... So Hindus have only been killed in the India Pakistani conflict and Kashmiri conflict... You better re-read the satatisitics and look at various history books.... What you have stated here is very ignorent in itself...
I suggest you cool it in your anti-Arab/ Muslim oppinion...Cuz it hurts when you diss the country of Pakistan... And stress the numbers of Hindus killed in the conflict where as many Muslims till today are being butchered and supressed..hmmmm... that is why there is a Pakistani state.... My PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE MANY INNOCENT VICTIMS OF ALL RELIGIONS AND B/G THAT GO THROUGH THIS SUPPRESSION.....

Michael, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAID... WELL SAID, MATE..... I CAN'T FIGURE OUT THE ANTI-SEMITISM IN THIS....

IF A FATHER WHO LOST HIS DAUGHTER TO A SUICIDE ATTACK CAN SAY THAT THE VICTIM WAS THE SUICIDE BOMBER WAS HIS DAUGHTER AND THE SUICIDE BOMBER AND THE AGRESSOR WAS THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT... THEN WHAT STOPS YOU ALL FROM REALISING THAT SHARON HAS SUPRESSED THE PEOPLE IN THE WEST BANK... All they see is death... They are all living in a Camp of Death... And how can they remain sane? I dont' know... I don't support Suicide bombing... But, the real Agressor in this is technically not the suicide bomber but Sharon's regime....

YOU ALL NEED TO OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE.... The Truth is out there...

I PRAY THAT MY MUSLIM, JEWISH, CHRISITIAN, HINDU, ETC. INNOCENT BROTHERS AND SISTERS CAN SEEK REFUGE AND PEACE UNDER THE BRUTAL AND CORRUPT GOV'T THAT THEY LIVE UNDER....
LETS PROMOTE TRUTH RATHER THEN IGNORENCE....

AMNA
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Old 03-24-2003, 01:36 PM   #26
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At the moment, India is going through many issues, I dont' think that the Arab world should see India as an example... Thats a joke.... Arun, do you know whats going on in Gujrat, Kashmir, and other cities? ...
The Arab World should work on it's infrastucture and unity... Looking at India or the West is a total mistake. Because they are at a total different culture and economic situation....

Instead of imposing our cultural influence on othe people, we should work on building the communication between eachother... We should form an understanding between eachother, West vs. Muslim World and vice-versa.....
This doesn't mean sending billions of dollars annualy to eachother, but it means respecting there space and developement...
-Listen to COLD PLAY'S Politik song, its pretty coool.. Sums up the conflict.


All to often, people are mixing religion with politics... Lets stay away from that....

I feel bad for Michael being told that he was being anti-semitic when he said nothing about Jewish people, but he was discussing the Israeli government....

Lets Open our Eyes.....
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Old 03-24-2003, 01:51 PM   #27
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Old 03-24-2003, 03:28 PM   #28
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Well said Amna... And thanks... I didn't want to touch that part of his comment... I really didn't understand where he was going with it, let alone the correlation with the Palestinians and the unjust conquest of their country.

When examining the issues of the Middle East, we must all try to answer the WHY factor? Why this is happening? Why are there suicide bombers? Why there is animosity towards the U.S. and Israel? Why are the Palestinians so repressed? Why are they so angry?

These questions are seldom answered, especially by the media... How, What, Where and When are answered in most arguments or media stories and articles. But WHY IS NOT...

You have to search for alternative media to really find out the truth. Michael Moore was great last night btw. Check out his web site: michaelmoore.com

If you want the truth, don't believe the Hype of CNN, MSNBC, FOX, etc... They're controlled by biased management, with strategic motives.

And what was the subject again?? oh yeah, 10 billion to Israel? WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY? Oh yeah, I mentioned why in a previus post.

later,

michael
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amna
At the moment, India is going through many issues, I dont' think that the Arab world should see India as an example... Thats a joke.... Arun, do you know whats going on in Gujrat, Kashmir, and other cities? ...
The Arab World should work on it's infrastucture and unity... Looking at India or the West is a total mistake. Because they are at a total different culture and economic situation....

Instead of imposing our cultural influence on othe people, we should work on building the communication between eachother... We should form an understanding between eachother, West vs. Muslim World and vice-versa.....
This doesn't mean sending billions of dollars annualy to eachother, but it means respecting there space and developement...
-Listen to COLD PLAY'S Politik song, its pretty coool.. Sums up the conflict.


All to often, people are mixing religion with politics... Lets stay away from that....

I feel bad for Michael being told that he was being anti-semitic when he said nothing about Jewish people, but he was discussing the Israeli government....

Lets Open our Eyes.....



the only joke is the fact that an ethnic group can get a homeleand it doesn't have a historical right to...and still complain.



Kashmir...is a reaction to militants funded by pakistan



Gujurat is an example of is an internal uprising..and what country hasn't had ethnic violence


Do you know amna that muslims in india can be tried by shaira law? and that muslims schools are government funded? but hindu schools can't be???



India is an example..and the only sad joke is the fact that this kashmir situation has been so drawn out when the answer is simple...there is no kashmir issue.



and when bangledesh was created...3 MILLION hindus were killed yes 3 MILLION....yet....indians have been very restrained in comparison with that.

3 Million ppl died less than 30 years ago half a holocaust in a matter of 267 days.


Pakistan is guilty of GENOCIDE...and yet from india still you dont' see an measured response back.




you tell me india being an example is a joke?....3 million dead bodies is no joke.

why dont' ppl read this and educate themselves


"The number of dead in Bangladesh in 1971 was almost certainly well into seven figures. It was one of the worst genocides of the World War II era, outstripping Rwanda (800,000 killed) and probably surpassing even Indonesia (1 million to 1.5 million killed in 1965-66). As R.J. Rummel writes,

The human death toll over only 267 days was incredible. Just to give for five out of the eighteen districts some incomplete statistics published in Bangladesh newspapers or by an Inquiry Committee, the Pakistani army killed 100,000 Bengalis in Dacca, 150,000 in Khulna, 75,000 in Jessore, 95,000 in Comilla, and 100,000 in Chittagong. For eighteen districts the total is 1,247,000 killed. This was an incomplete toll, and to this day no one really knows the final toll. Some estimates of the democide [Rummel's "death by government"] are much lower -- one is of 300,000 dead -- but most range from 1 million to 3 million. ... The Pakistani army and allied paramilitary groups killed about one out of every sixty-one people in Pakistan overall; one out of every twenty-five Bengalis, Hindus, and others in East Pakistan. If the rate of killing for all of Pakistan is annualized over the years the Yahya martial law regime was in power (March 1969 to December 1971), then this one regime was more lethal than that of the Soviet Union, China under the communists, or Japan under the military (even through World War II). (Rummel, Death By Government, p. 331.)
The proportion of men versus women murdered is impossible to ascertain, but a speculation might be attempted. If we take the highest estimates for both women raped and Bengalis killed (400,000 and 3 million, respectively); if we accept that half as many women were killed as were raped; and if we double that number for murdered children of both sexes (total: 600,000), we are still left with a death-toll that is 80 percent adult male (2.4 million out of 3 million). Any such disproportion, which is almost certainly on the low side, would qualify Bangladesh as one of the worst gendercides against men in the last half-millennium.
"



People can open their eyes...but not at the expense of closing their mind to harsh reality.
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Old 03-26-2003, 12:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V
and when bangledesh was created...3 MILLION hindus were killed yes 3 MILLION....yet....indians have been very restrained in comparison with that.

3 Million ppl died less than 30 years ago half a holocaust in a matter of 267 days.


Pakistan is guilty of GENOCIDE...and yet from india still you dont' see an measured response back.




you tell me india being an example is a joke?....3 million dead bodies is no joke.

why dont' ppl read this and educate themselves

3 million people? that's horrifying...

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