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Old 02-14-2002, 11:20 AM   #1
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US list of terrorists around the world

Ok, I guess I will be a bit flamed here but I have to let it out.

After the terrorist attack US made up a list of "possible" terrorists around the world and demanded the UN, EU and the countires they lived in to "freeze" all their assets(?). This was made in oct/nov.
Why I've heard of this is because three men living in Sweden were on that list. Originally they are from Somalia.

These men had no idea why they were on the list. My first reaction was that, oh no, please let us not be involved. Since then they have got to know nothing WHY they are on the list. No proofs of them being involved in anything illegal. The only thing is that they had been involved with some bank in Somalia long ago that in some way worked for Al Qauida. (i'm not exactly sure about the relationship there though). Well, anyone who gives these three men money, employer or in private is comitting a crime.

They have gotten very little help from the swedish government (which I'm ashamed of) and noone knows or wants to tell them why. The only answer the Tv got when they decided to dig in this is that their is an investigation going on and since it's confidential they can't say anything. When they asked the mens lawyer they didn't know antyhing about an investigation.

Finally they got to conversate with the swedish ambassy in US and they ask US for any kind of proof or reason why these men were on the list and should have there assets frozen. Today we got the answer. The US don't have to tell the men why, they don't need any proof to do this and even if there isn't any proof of them being involved in anything illegal they should be on the list just to prevent them from maybe comitting anything terroristic.

What is this??? I have no words of what I thought when I heard this. This pretty much means that I can be put on a list because I've VISITED, say Afghanistan. I should be on the list because I MIGHT work with terrorist and the US wants to prevent me from that by "frighten" me. What about you're innocent until you're proved guilty?? And don't these men have the right to know WHY??? They have lived on nothing since november. And now they get to know that the US don't have to proove anything to judge people of being terrorists. These men have lived here for a long time, have good jobs and can speak for themselves, it's not like they have lived a criminal life while they have lived in Sweden.

I've been trying to be humble and openminded about this whole thing but now I actually think that the US is crossing the line for what's morally right to do in their hunt for terrorists and stopping the terrorism. Right now US are really acting like the world police and think they can do whatever they want to, in the name of stopping the terrorism. But to go and judge people like that and not letting them know why, that's too much for me.

Even if it later turns out that these men actually are guilty, the US has acted wrong, if you are accused for something, you have the right to know why, when and where and you have the right to speak for yourself and your innocence, if so, even if the the other part is the US.

Ok, I'm done, I'm upset and if someone has any more info about this I'm eager to here because I might have missed something, if so, I'm sorry. But from what I've heard, this is crazy!


[This message has been edited by MissZooropa (edited 02-14-2002).]
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Old 02-14-2002, 11:23 AM   #2
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Finally they got to conversate with the swedish ambassy in US and they ask US for any kind of proof or reason why these men were on the list and should have there assets frozen. Today we got the answer. The US don't have to tell the men why, they don't need any proof to do this and even if there isn't any proof of them being involved in anything illegal they should be on the list just to prevent them from maybe comitting anything terroristic :eek
In the U.S, you can be sentanced to death without ever being allowed to see the evidence against you.
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Old 02-14-2002, 11:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
In the U.S, you can be sentanced to death without ever being allowed to see the evidence against you.
Interesting, at least I know why now. It sounds very strange though.
Then I must ask, if I say that you murdered my friend, then you are just sent for prison without an trial and a chance to defend yourself?

I thought US was civilized and a democratic country, what you just said doesn't sound like that, more like China or any undemocratic country where you don't have the right to speak and defend yourself. If you don't get to know why then you can't defend yourself.

Please explain this a bit more.

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Old 02-14-2002, 12:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissZooropa:

I thought US was civilized and a democratic country, what you just said doesn't sound like that, more like China or any undemocratic country where you don't have the right to speak and defend yourself. If you don't get to know why then you can't defend yourself.

Please explain this a bit more.

yeah and no other country in the world have problems..The system wasn't perfect to begin with...the world for us has changed...and the system still isn't perfect..yes it's shame things like this happen..but just don't throw comments out for the sake of it. If you want to slam the US...there are better reasons for it

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Old 02-14-2002, 12:16 PM   #5
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Originally posted by Arun V:
yeah and no other country in the world have problems..The system wasn't perfect to begin with...the world for us has changed...and the system still isn't perfect..yes it's shame things like this happen..but just don't throw comments out for the sake of it. If you want to slam the US...there are better reasons for it

Please focus on the subject and please don't jump on me. I'm not here to slam anyone, I'm just curious and asking for me relevant questions about a country that says to be open and the country of possibilities. These regulations hasn't come with the attack so it has nothing to do with you being changed.
Don't be so aggressive, I'm not, I'm just asking questions to be able to maybe understand a little bit more.

As you put in your quote I also asked for an explanation, just to be enlightened why your system is built on not letting people know why they are judged or accused.
I have never said that any other country don't have their problems. But don't you agree that it is very strange that you are not allowed to know WHY you are accused of something and then defend yourself?
I don't really care about laws in other countries, I can agree, or disagree but never change anything. But when they are used on non citizen of the country, on people that never even have been in the country, then I think something is wrong and am I not allowed to even ask?
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Old 02-14-2002, 04:06 PM   #6
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Calling the US uncivilized, comparing it to china.......no you weren't slamming anyone

[This message has been edited by Arun V (edited 02-14-2002).]
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Old 02-14-2002, 04:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
In the U.S, you can be sentanced to death without ever being allowed to see the evidence against you.

At what point were you labotomized? Do you even think before you post crap like this?



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Old 02-14-2002, 04:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V:
Calling the US uncivilized, comparing it to china.......no you weren't slamming anyone
Does this _sound_ civilized?


Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
In the U.S, you can be sentanced to death without ever being allowed to see the evidence against you.


And once again, I asked to get it more explained but haven't. If the above quote isn't true then say that instead of jumping on me an misinterpret what I write in the worst possible way. Do I actually have to say that of course US isn't like China and of course US is civilized but the above quote is in my eyes not a very civilized way to treat people, and it does sound like something happening in uncivilized countries NOT in US and therefor I ask for some explanations and am amazed.

If something sounded terrible wrong for an foreinger about something in the swedish sociaty I would try to explain, why it is like that, if it was true. And if I found it as wrong as the foreigner I wouldn't defend my country just because I "have" to. I can admit what's wrong with my country even if I love it.
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Old 02-14-2002, 05:00 PM   #9
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MissZooropa > I don't know anything about this case, but based solely on the information you provided, I agree with you that:

Right now US are really acting like the world police and think they can do whatever they want to, in the name of stopping the terrorism.
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Old 02-14-2002, 05:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissZooropa:
I'm just curious and asking for me relevant questions about a country that says to be open and the country of possibilities.
good luck

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Old 02-14-2002, 05:40 PM   #11
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I got cut off in the middle of my post above, but what I meant to continue saying is that the U.S. has always assumed it had the right to police the world--this isn't new behavior--and it disturbs me greatly.

Also, MissZooropa, no one should be jumping on you for these questions. We Americans should be demanding answers, too.
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Old 02-14-2002, 05:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissZooropa:
I can admit what's wrong with my country even if I love it.
Yeah, but you don't live in the greatest country on earth.
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Old 02-14-2002, 07:46 PM   #13
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.

[This message has been edited by WARCHILD (edited 02-14-2002).]
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Old 02-14-2002, 07:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissZooropa:

Right now US are really acting like the world police and think they can do whatever they want to, in the name of stopping the terrorism.
You know, I felt the exact same way during the Clinton Administration, I think the Term 'Meal On Wheels' program describes our Military perfectly during that time... How Sickening..

But Our country gets shit upon when we DON'T act as the 'World's Police Force'.. Just another contradiction of how we can't win in these situations.

I'm in the process of looking up articles, but I've got to bounce shortly.. Just wanted to say that to say... When you write like it's an instant epiphany that "We're NOW acting as the world's police force".. In all ways of logic, I don't quite think it would be too far off to say that We've Always been the Modern World's Police Force. (Regardless of the Motivations for our actions)

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Old 02-14-2002, 09:59 PM   #15
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Miss Zooropa-
Simply put we're at war.
The USA is a wonderful country.
Our good attributes far outwiegh our bad ones.
Most would agree w/this.
No one promised it to be pleasant or to work out perfectly.

Diamond

[This message has been edited by Diamond The U2 Patriot (edited 02-14-2002).]
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