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Old 03-09-2005, 08:43 AM   #1
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US: IRA must disband now

From CNN.com:

Quote:
U.S.: IRA must disband now

Demand follows group's offer to shoot Catholic man's killers




BELFAST, Northern Ireland (Reuters) -- The United States has demanded that the IRA disband after the guerrilla group's astonishing offer to shoot the killers of a murdered Northern Ireland Catholic man.

"It's time for the IRA to go out of business," U.S. special envoy Mitchell Reiss said Wednesday.

For the IRA's political ally Sinn Fein, Northern Ireland's biggest Irish nationalist party, the U.S. demand was yet another blow to its democratic credentials.

Reiss told BBC radio: "It's time for Sinn Fein to be able to say explicitly, without ambiguity, without ambivalence, that criminality will not be tolerated.

"You can't sign up for the rule of law a la carte."

The IRA's offer -- also condemned by London and Dublin -- handed fresh ammunition to Protestant rivals who say Sinn Fein is not fit for government until the Irish Republican Army disarms and disbands.

The killing of Robert McCartney by a gang including IRA members has plunged the IRA and Sinn Fein into crisis -- coming just weeks after the guerrilla group was blamed for a £26.5 million ($50 million) bank raid in central Belfast.

London and Dublin say there can be no progress on restoring the British-ruled province's regional government -- set up under a 1998 peace deal to share power between divided Protestants and Catholics -- until the issue of IRA criminality is resolved.

Home rule was suspended in 2002 when unionists, who support ties to Britain, said they would no longer sit in government with Sinn Fein until the IRA got rid of the weapons which sustained its three-decade campaign against British rule.

"It is their declared intent to murder," said hardline Democratic Unionist Party leader Ian Paisley in response to the IRA move. "The Sinn Fein/IRA commitment to terror and criminality is total."

Bar fight

McCartney, a 33-year-old forklift truck driver, was beaten and stabbed to death in a bar fight at the end of January.

His family, who hail from a working class Catholic district considered an IRA heartland, have mounted a vociferous campaign for the killers to be brought to justice, accusing the IRA of intimidating witnesses and cleaning the bar of evidence.

The United States has already signaled its displeasure with the political stagnation in the province by failing to invite the leaders of Sinn Fein and the other Northern Ireland political parties to the White House for St. Patrick's Day celebrations this month.

In a statement released on Tuesday, the IRA said it had held a five-and-a-half hour meeting with the dead man's sisters and fiancee, during which it "stated in clear terms that the IRA was prepared to shoot the people directly involved."

The family rejected the offer, saying they wanted the killers brought to court.

The IRA did not spell out whether it intended to kill or wound the suspects, but Northern Ireland's police chief Hugh Orde said he had no doubt the offer was to assassinate them.

"We are not in the business of applauding or being impressed by illegal organizations' statements," he told the BBC.

"We have to remember that it was IRA members who killed Mr. McCartney, it was IRA members who destroyed the evidence and it was IRA members who threatened and intimidated the witnesses."
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Old 03-09-2005, 10:24 AM   #2
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The IRA are like the Mafia - offering to shoot someone as a form of justice? Disturbing. The US government has acted correctly as it usually has done in respect of the Irish peace process. Bush is being well advised.
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Old 03-09-2005, 01:00 PM   #3
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Criminals are criminals are criminals.
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Old 03-09-2005, 04:52 PM   #4
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Everything aside, if it was Clintons White House it'd be a different story, but honestly there isnt many people who would really give a shit about what a Bush White House says on the matter. They havent involved themselves for sellfish reasons.
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Old 03-09-2005, 07:31 PM   #5
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I think the administration who has a guy at the head (Dubya) whose father was the head of the CIA in the 1970s at a time when the CIA was covertly funding coup d'etats of LEGALLY ELECTED governments in South America and allowing these U.S. imposed thugs to kill, maim, torture and imprison tens of thousands of their countrymen

HAS NO BUSINESS TELLING ANYONE OR ORGANIZATION TO STOP USING VIOLENT MEANS (I do not agree personally with violent means of change)!

The U.S. in South America in the 1970s and in southern Africa in the 1980s covertly funded the death and destruction of tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, people that they funded in support of civil wars in southern Africa and coup d'etats in South America!

Bush needs to look at his own family history first.

Harsh words, I know, but IT IS THE TRUTH.
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Old 03-09-2005, 07:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
I think the administration who has a guy at the head (Dubya) whose father was the head of the CIA in the 1970s at a time when the CIA was covertly funding coup d'etats of LEGALLY ELECTED governments in South America and allowing these U.S. imposed thugs to kill, maim, torture and imprison tens of thousands of their countrymen

HAS NO BUSINESS TELLING ANYONE OR ORGANIZATION TO STOP USING VIOLENT MEANS (I do not agree personally with violent means of change)!

The U.S. in South America in the 1970s and in southern Africa in the 1980s covertly funded the death and destruction of tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, people that they funded in support of civil wars in southern Africa and coup d'etats in South America!

Bush needs to look at his own family history first.

Harsh words, I know, but IT IS THE TRUTH.
Reminds me of the argument that since the US had backed Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq war, it wasn't allowed to depose Saddam because that would be hypocritical.

There were of course cogent arguments against attacking Saddam, but this one had to be the weakest.
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Old 03-09-2005, 08:02 PM   #7
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What i mean by Bush not having the credentials to tell the IRA or NI how to run their affairs are based on a few points.

Bush never took an interest in NI. Clinton was a man that is loved in NI and Ireland as a whole. He took the unpopular postion of inviting Gerry Adams etc. to the white house and lobying them to put guns down, or for Adams to convey that to the IRA. Since Bush has come into power his interest levels seem to be nil. After 9/11 he was to scared to be seen talking to 'terrorists', so its not that he didnt show interest, becasue i'm not him and dont know what he is thinking, he never showed interest publically which is very important.

Bush must relize, along with many Americans, Ireland has a love affair with America. They like Americans, not so much Bush, but what America stands for. That is the reason Clinton had so much respect and his message was so powerful. If Bush were to show an interest, like say some to Belfast, talk to Republicans and Unionists, really show that he cares, his admins. comments would be taken with more weight. He cant sit back and never engage with the Irish then expect to say something and anyone in Ireland take notice.

Clinton also had a political angle, Irish America had started to turn to the right with Reagan in power and he seen it as the golden chance of getting them back, and he did.

But at the end of the day Bush and his admin. cant sit on the outside of the arena and shout suggestions in but refuse to sit and become active in the disscusion.
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Old 03-09-2005, 08:48 PM   #8
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I reckon if Bush took any kind of stance toward NI, it would become another bashing point in the vein of his administration seeking trouble and getting involved. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
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Old 03-09-2005, 09:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman


But at the end of the day Bush and his admin. cant sit on the outside of the arena and shout suggestions in but refuse to sit and become active in the disscusion.
But they're not just sitting on the outside, Bush's advisor has met the political leaders on a number of occasions. It is unrealistic to expect Bush to devote the same level of attention to it as Clinton did, that was a one-off.
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Old 03-10-2005, 08:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
The IRA are like the Mafia - offering to shoot someone as a form of justice? Disturbing. The US government has acted correctly as it usually has done in respect of the Irish peace process. Bush is being well advised.

Interesting commentary by a former IRA member who also makes the Mafia comparison:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...mment-opinions
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Old 03-10-2005, 11:34 AM   #11
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Yea but without a proper police service in all of my community's eyes the Provos can be useful, except for the fact that they are complete and utter bastards
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Old 03-10-2005, 10:46 PM   #12
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why was Clinton a one off?

Cant new Presidents take up a formaer Presidents cause, especially if that President did so much good for this casue?
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Old 03-10-2005, 10:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
I think the administration who has a guy at the head (Dubya) whose father was the head of the CIA in the 1970s at a time when the CIA was covertly funding coup d'etats of LEGALLY ELECTED governments in South America and allowing these U.S. imposed thugs to kill, maim, torture and imprison tens of thousands of their countrymen

HAS NO BUSINESS TELLING ANYONE OR ORGANIZATION TO STOP USING VIOLENT MEANS (I do not agree personally with violent means of change)!

The U.S. in South America in the 1970s and in southern Africa in the 1980s covertly funded the death and destruction of tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, people that they funded in support of civil wars in southern Africa and coup d'etats in South America!

Bush needs to look at his own family history first.

Harsh words, I know, but IT IS THE TRUTH.
Why should the blood of his father be on him? If my father robbed a bank, was it my responsibility?
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Old 03-11-2005, 05:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat (emphasis added)
The United States has already signaled its displeasure with the political stagnation in the province by failing to invite the leaders of Sinn Fein and the other Northern Ireland political parties to the White House for St. Patrick's Day celebrations this month.
This article doesn't remark on the significance of that italicized passage, but if you follow the British media, you already know it: the fact that the Bush Administration chose to disinvite all the NI parties--rather than single out Sinn Fein--provoked a lot of anger in the UK, and was widely regarded as the US coddling Sinn Fein. So, if anything, Reiss' remarks were probably intended more as damage control than anything else.

At any rate, by this time the McCartney sisters had already announced their intention to visit Washington themselves and seek the Administration's support for their case, so the Administration really did not have the option of taking no position on IRA criminality.
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Old 03-11-2005, 07:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Why should the blood of his father be on him? If my father robbed a bank, was it my responsibility?
I was just about to say the same thing. How does things that his father did have anything to do with him? I hate how anything Bush does nowadays, he gets criticized for. Every damn thing.

Now, most of the time, what he gets criticized for has merit. But things like this are just stupid. He wants to get rid of this mafia-like organization, and you're criticizing him because of something his FATHER did that's remotely concerning the matter? I mean, would you rather Bush just shut his yap about it and let the IRA be? Honestly.
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