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Old 01-14-2005, 11:13 PM   #1
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US Discharges Gay Arabic Linguists.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...tary_linguists

Someone tell me how this is good? Please, I want to hear about all "positives" that come of this.
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Old 01-14-2005, 11:17 PM   #2
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Don't we all.
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Old 01-14-2005, 11:21 PM   #3
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My house is burning down. But the fireman that comes to put out the fire is gay. No thanks, let it burn.
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Old 01-14-2005, 11:35 PM   #4
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Just wondering here, I've never been in the military but isn't it a big "asexual affair"? When does anyones sexuality ever come up, apart from being on leave and partying? Why would anyone bring it up? It's a bunch of guys living together for long periods of time in tight quarters. Sexual relationships are not allowed, so why bring it up?

It's not good that we fired these translators, but wouldn't it be worse if we fired every soldier who was, right or wrong, uncomfortable living side by side a gay man? There's an ideal world and then there's the real world we're living in.

So can someone tell me why it's so difficult staying in the closet if you're in the military? And I'm not asking this to be combative, pardon the pun!
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Old 01-14-2005, 11:38 PM   #5
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Just one of the many reasons why we're not "winning" as handily as a lot of people think we are.

The people up top really need to get their shit together, but I'm betting that's not gonna happen anytime soon.
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Old 01-14-2005, 11:44 PM   #6
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This has more to do with usual millitary bs than anything else.

I am more worried about the nature of those within the FBI's translation desk.
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Old 01-14-2005, 11:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark


So can someone tell me why it's so difficult staying in the closet if you're in the military? And I'm not asking this to be combative, pardon the pun!
I'm not going to begin to try to put reason behind military policies regarding homosexuality.

All I'm saying is that the reports and investigations that came out after 9/11 placed a lot of fault with the military and inelligence community because they were still in a cold war mentality, a whole decade after it had ended.

They weren't prepared for the new threats, and not having enough people who spoke Arabic is an example of that.

Now 9/11 has happened, and it's a question of when, not if, the next similar event will occur. We know what's out there and we know what's coming, but for some reason a person's sexuality is taking precedence over the fact that he might potentially be able to translate an overheard (tapped) conversation that might possibly lead to the deaths of thousands of people.

It's crazy.
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Old 01-15-2005, 07:09 AM   #8
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I don't like this. We need translators big time. The article points out that we don't have enough translators in Arabic and Farsi. We need translators too much to be firing them for coming out of the closet.
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Old 01-15-2005, 07:23 AM   #9
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the stupidity of this is astonishing.

then again, i suppose is shouldn't be all that surprised.
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Old 01-15-2005, 07:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark
It's not good that we fired these translators, but wouldn't it be worse if we fired every soldier who was, right or wrong, uncomfortable living side by side a gay man? There's an ideal world and then there's the real world we're living in.

So can someone tell me why it's so difficult staying in the closet if you're in the military? And I'm not asking this to be combative, pardon the pun!

usually someone finds out inadvertantly. there may be a slip of the tongue -- "my boyfriend ..." -- or someone might see you on a date with a man at some point. people usually do their best to remain closeted (and you'd be *shocked* at how many in the upper ranks of the military are gay ... my Coast Guard friend [who's straight] said they were referred to as "the happy brass") but it's a very hard thing to do -- and psychologically taxing. life in the closet is very difficult, and some people simply get sick of it. we're not talking about *flaunting* anything -- we're talking bout a gay soldier getting discharged for having a conversation which any other straight person is entitled to have -- "i am going on a date this weekend," etc.

whether or not they should have to be closeted is a different matter, and i'll leave that one for another thread.

finally, for the soldiers who don't want to live next to a gay person -- grow the fuck up. get over it. that is no more credible or understandable to say that you don't want to live next to a black person or a latino. besides, there are currently thousands of gay soldiers serving across the world, and they live, eat, and sleep in close quarters with straight soldiers.

juyst replace the word "gay" in that article with "jewish." would you find ANY excuses for such behavior? would people not be marching in the streets over such bigotry?

furthermore, these guys are TRANSLATORS. they're not on patroll in Baghdad or sweeping the caves of Tora Bora.

this is so moronic ... we're less safe because a few assholes are so wrapped up in their own misguided prejudices, self-serving stereotypes, and freudian insecuritites that the appeasement of a bigoted few is worth the increased endangerment of the United States.

way to go, USA Military. why should gay men help defend a country that treates them like 2nd class citiznes?

as said in the article:

"I looked at myself and said, `Are you willing to go to war with an institution that won't recognize that you have the right to live as you want to,'" said Finkenbinder, 22, who now lives in Baltimore. "It just got to be tiresome to deal with that — to constantly have such a significant part of your life under scrutiny."
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Old 01-15-2005, 11:15 AM   #11
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My thoughts on this:





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Old 01-15-2005, 11:40 AM   #12
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another angle on this that i know i've mentioned before, but it bears repeating in light of this: the GWOT is, on one level, extremely imporant to gay Americans. we are, in fact, one thing that our contry is fighting for. why? let's ponder ... on September 11, we were given a whole new cast of "american heroes" who were infinitely more deserving than those who are traditionally labled heroes. instead of Madonna, Barry Bonds, or whatever overcompensated superstar, we were given firefighters, police officers, any number of first responders, and the people on board Flight 93. one member of that flight was Mark Bingham, a 6'5" rugby player who was, so it happen, gay. with the others, he helped wrestle that flight to the ground. remember opnely gay father Michyal Judge? killed by falling debris in the WTC as he administered last rites and blessings to countless firefighters. we now have visible heroes, who are gay as well, as well as the thousands of closeted soldiers. what they -- and all of us, in a sense -- are fighting against (and i divorce the invasion of Iraq from the GWOT ... but that's contentious and another thread) are men and their twisted vision of Islam who see the freedom that gay people have in the West as one of the central reasons for their hatred. they believe that gay men and women deserve to be tortured and executed in hideous fashion -- we saw this in Taliban-controled Afghanistan. repugnant as they are, Falwell and Robertson look mild in comparison to these thugs. they have already murdered based upon sexuality, and given the chance, they would kill every last gay person and destroy every last piece of gay America if they could.

in this light, why would you not only deny gay Americans the right to serve their country as they see fit, but also the opportunity to fight for their survivial?
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Old 01-15-2005, 12:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark
Just wondering here, I've never been in the military but isn't it a big "asexual affair"? When does anyones sexuality ever come up, apart from being on leave and partying? Why would anyone bring it up? It's a bunch of guys living together for long periods of time in tight quarters. Sexual relationships are not allowed, so why bring it up?


So can someone tell me why it's so difficult staying in the closet if you're in the military? And I'm not asking this to be combative, pardon the pun!
You can't honestly believe this. Sexuality comes up in everday conversation. So do you have girlfriend back home? So want to hit the town this weekend and tried and get laid? I miss my girlfriend.

If you going to ask homosexuals to stay in the closet then ask all heteros to stay in the closet as well. Good luck with that one.
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Old 01-15-2005, 01:01 PM   #14
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Just asking questions, not making statements. And commenting on what today's reality might be. I've also heard people in the gay community debate things such as whether America is "ready" for gay marriage. Same could apply to the military. Maybe we're not ready? Again, questions, not necessarily opinions.
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Old 01-15-2005, 01:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark
Just asking questions, not making statements. And commenting on what today's reality might be. I've also heard people in the gay community debate things such as whether America is "ready" for gay marriage. Same could apply to the military. Maybe we're not ready? Again, questions, not necessarily opinions.
Questions that are valid but shouldn't be. These questions should have been answered and dealt with a long time ago. It amazes me how far behind we really are.
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