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Old 03-22-2004, 09:50 PM   #16
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"As evil as the Soviet Union was, we should not have supported the majahedeen. They were like a proto-Taliban, complete with a bin Laden connection dating to 1982."

That is simply false and insult to everyone who served in the Northern Alliance. Majahedeen were a collection of various groups in Afghanistan that had the goal of pushing the Soviets out. Most of them were citizens of Afghanistan and not Arab's like Bin Ladin. The Northern Alliance is the chief remanent of the Majahadeen.

If your going to lump them in with Bin Ladin because he was there, you might as well lump in the Bosnian Muslims defending Sarajevo in the early 1990s with terrorist elements from the middle east that got in there and were helping the Bosnian Muslims.
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Old 03-22-2004, 09:52 PM   #17
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OK. I'm sorry, got a bit confused there. You're right, he was an outsider who came in with a bit of help. But generally the mujahadeen are not the kind of people I start fan clubs for.
I agree I probably wouldn't start a fan club for them, but they were the only form of resistence available to the Afghan people.
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Old 03-22-2004, 11:51 PM   #18
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Pakistan:India = PLO:Israel.

It's no different. Pakistan is a dangerous state.
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Old 03-23-2004, 12:32 AM   #19
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Originally posted by anitram
Pakistan:India = PLO:Israel.

It's no different. Pakistan is a dangerous state.
Pakistan indeed has a lot of problems but it is not Palestine at all.

Pakistan has captured more Al Qauda terrorist than any other single country around the world except the USA. In capturing these terrorist, Pakistan has saved and uncountable number of lives from terrorism.
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Old 03-23-2004, 03:56 AM   #20
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1) USA's best ally is not a democracy. Ironically its present President staged a COUP to come to power.

2) USA's best ally was the brain behind the creation of Taliban. Infact Taliban was created by them. Also parts of Pakistan has Taliban-like law today.

3) USA's best ally harbours terrorists. There are atleast 20 terrorists known to live FREELY that are involved in various bomb blasts/shooting killing innocent civilians . Just because they didnt kill Americans, its probably ok. Isnt it ?

4) Pakistan admitted to have leaked nuke technology to God-only-knows which-all countries.

Its ironic that most of the real culprits of 9/11 were from another staunch American Ally - Saudi Arabia - no prizes for guessing it is not a democracy too !!
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Old 03-23-2004, 09:46 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
"As evil as the Soviet Union was, we should not have supported the majahedeen. They were like a proto-Taliban, complete with a bin Laden connection dating to 1982."

That is simply false and insult to everyone who served in the Northern Alliance. Majahedeen were a collection of various groups in Afghanistan that had the goal of pushing the Soviets out. Most of them were citizens of Afghanistan and not Arab's like Bin Ladin. The Northern Alliance is the chief remanent of the Majahadeen.

If your going to lump them in with Bin Ladin because he was there, you might as well lump in the Bosnian Muslims defending Sarajevo in the early 1990s with terrorist elements from the middle east that got in there and were helping the Bosnian Muslims.
OK, maybe I went a bit overboard there. Sorry. The mujahedeen had some pretty bad apples in their midst and they are mainly judged by the bad apples, those powerful warlords that average Afghans have told me they despise. I used to post on an Afghan message board. It was an adventure.
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Old 03-23-2004, 10:08 AM   #22
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STING,

There are actually a lot more terrorist elements in Bosnia right now than possibly during the war. The place is verving with people from Saudi, Yemen, etc. This is a big problem in the heart of Europe, I feel. In fact, a Canadian with ties to al-Qaeda was recently released by the Americans and the first thing he did was fly into Sarajevo. It's become a takeoff point and the way the country is structured as long as you've got money, you can have anything you want. It's truly frightening and worthy of keeping an eye on.
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Old 03-26-2004, 07:31 PM   #23
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I saw a report on the news today that Al Qaeda has threatened to assassinate the President of Pakistan. There seem to be many Taliban supporters in this country, especially among the Pashtun tribes along the Afghan border. The report showed a huge demonstration, during which American flags and effigies of Bush were burned. An Al Qaeda big shot has apparently escaped; a week ago the Pakistani army thought they had him captured. All this stuff scares the out of me.
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Old 03-27-2004, 02:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan
1) USA's best ally is not a democracy. Ironically its present President staged a COUP to come to power.

2) USA's best ally was the brain behind the creation of Taliban. Infact Taliban was created by them. Also parts of Pakistan has Taliban-like law today.

3) USA's best ally harbours terrorists. There are atleast 20 terrorists known to live FREELY that are involved in various bomb blasts/shooting killing innocent civilians . Just because they didnt kill Americans, its probably ok. Isnt it ?

4) Pakistan admitted to have leaked nuke technology to God-only-knows which-all countries.

Its ironic that most of the real culprits of 9/11 were from another staunch American Ally - Saudi Arabia - no prizes for guessing it is not a democracy too !!
1) America's best Ally in World War II was not a democracy. Its President was apart of a group that had staged revolution/coup to come to power 20 years before World War II.

2) The Government of Pakistan did not create the Taliban, but they did support them as a way to counter the Northern Alliance. This allowed Pakistan to keep more troops on its eastern border with India which outnumbers Pakistan in conventional forces by more than 2 to 1.

3) The Soviet Union prior to World War II had slaughtered millions of people in the Ukraine and other Soviet republics through war and starvation. Back to Pakistan, lets remember that Pakistan has captured more terrorist, Al Quada and Taliban, than any other country except the USA. Care to guess how many terrorist attacks were stopped because of that and how many lives were saved?

4) A member of Pakistan's government leaked technology. This is a huge concern, but Pakistan is taking measures to correct this problem.

Bin Ladin specifically planned for there to be 15 Saudi's out of the 19 hijackers as an attempt to drive a wedge between the USA and Saudi Arabia. Luckily, he has failed to fool the US government although individuals around the world seem to have fallen for it.

Nope, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are not democracy's, but niether was the Soviet Union or many other US Ally's at key points in history.
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Old 03-27-2004, 02:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2




Nope, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are not democracy's, but niether was the Soviet Union or many other US Ally's at key points in history.
So bringing Democracy to a country is only importaint when it can be used as propaganda ?
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Old 03-27-2004, 11:32 AM   #26
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Originally posted by Rono
So bringing Democracy to a country is only importaint when it can be used as propaganda ?
No, one becomes Allies with various countries based on the need and potential of those countries to resolve mutual threats to their security.
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Old 03-27-2004, 06:01 PM   #27
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Originally posted by STING2


No, one becomes Allies with various countries based on the need and potential of those countries to resolve mutual threats to their security.
So it is ok to defend a dictatorship because they have mutual intrests ?
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Old 03-27-2004, 06:08 PM   #28
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Do you think it was wrong to support the Soviet Union in World War II?
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Old 03-28-2004, 01:23 AM   #29
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Supporting Pakistan can be seen as "the cost of doing business." The Russia comparison is kinda different. There weren't protests in Russia in 1944 about the alliance they had w/ the US. There are protests in Pakistan about their support of the US.
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Old 03-28-2004, 02:27 AM   #30
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Well, there were no such things as "protest" in Stalins Soviet Union.
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