US Aid update

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Re: Re: US Aid update

Do Miss America said:


Oh look my country's dick is bigger than yours.

Nearly 150,000 people are dead that we know of and you're whining about this?

To quote another poster who is clearly more capable of spelling it out than I was obviously able to:

"I totally got your point. People bitched about the U.S. and its "stingy" 35M dollar original aid, but didn't bitch about other countries who had even lower amounts of aid as the U.S. Then they call you tasteless and making it into a competition..ect. I just think what you pointed out didn't fit in too well with the usual crowd here that likes to bash the U.S. and praise particularily Europe for being so much more "enlightened" than thos in the U.S."
 
Re: Re: Re: US Aid update

cardosino said:


To quote another poster who is clearly more capable of spelling it out than I was obviously able to:

"I totally got your point. People bitched about the U.S. and its "stingy" 35M dollar original aid, but didn't bitch about other countries who had even lower amounts of aid as the U.S. Then they call you tasteless and making it into a competition..ect. I just think what you pointed out didn't fit in too well with the usual crowd here that likes to bash the U.S. and praise particularily Europe for being so much more "enlightened" than thos in the U.S."

I don't see how calling on your own country to do more(which they eventually did) can be called "US bashing". This really is ridiculous.
 
Re: Re: US Aid update

Do Miss America said:


Oh look my country's dick is bigger than yours.

Nearly 150,000 people are dead that we know of and you're whining about this?

Since most things going on in most places pale into insignificance compared to the death toll, are we to suspend all discussions on them ?

When some people don't get good seats for the next U2 tour will we be admonished for whining about such trivialities as compared to this ?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: US Aid update

Do Miss America said:


I don't see how calling on your own country to do more(which they eventually did) can be called "US bashing". This really is ridiculous.

What's ridiculous are the double-standards at work.

Much of the bashing wasn't actually from people calling on "their own country to do more". It was just Bush-bashing, plain and simple.
 
Re: Re: Re: US Aid update

cardosino said:


Since most things going on in most places pale into insignificance compared to the death toll, are we to suspend all discussions on them ?

When some people don't get good seats for the next U2 tour will we be admonished for whining about such trivialities as compared to this ?

You truly don't get it do you? 150,000 people are dead, countries from all over are providing aid to help these people they've never met and you are making comparisons that don't even work.
 
Well, it's obvious to me that people in general are doing all they can to help. U.S. aid is over $4 billion, counting private donations. There is more to this than government aid. I'm not saying government aid means nothing, just that it's not the whole story.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: US Aid update

Do Miss America said:


You truly don't get it do you?


Sure I do.

Do Miss America said:


150,000 people are dead, countries from all over are providing aid to help these people they've never met and you are making comparisons that don't even work.

So, will it be OK to whine about tickets or not ? You're drifting, again.

The comparisons are valid. The double standards being employed are valid. Whine aboou one rich countrie's lack of aid, don't whine about the other. Why ? I wouldn't know, I was happy that Aid was being pledged and said all along that more would come. The bashing continued. More came. Some were STILL bashing, claiming Bush will back out. The whole time other rich countries' relatively meager aid amount has been neglected.

US bashing in here is a bit of a sport at times, and that is the only reason other countries' aid amounts aren't under the same scrutiny. I get it, you clearly don't.

I'd be happy to continue this discussion privately with you, but if you want to do it in here you won't be doing it with me.
 
While I am most interested in health issues that will arise from the devastation, and the effects both short and long term, as a US citizen I'm very concerned about the amount of financial aid we will eventually give. Bush and his obscene liberal spending habits are a disgrace - and I think that beyond the enormous investment made in Iraq. We are spending the country into a dangerous financial hole.

I say let the US private sector and the rest of the world shoulder the majority of this relief effort. It's time the US gov't pass the baton as the world's great EMT. There is plenty of cash outside of our government's coffers.

As a long time conservative, I am stunned by the 180 my party has done with their fiscal irresponsibility. Ironically, the democrats now talk like budget hawks. It's astonishing...

The other concern is making sure the money and goods and services are delivered. I have litttle confidence in using the UN as a distribution arm, even a minor one. One can only imagine the what we'll hear 5 year from now with the scandals of diverting funds and profiteering off this disaster.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: US Aid update

Do Miss America said:


I don't see how calling on your own country to do more(which they eventually did) can be called "US bashing". This really is ridiculous.

Clearly you have not been in FYM, back when the threads were bashing the US over 9/11.
 
um...never mind:huh:

Clearly the past threads have nothing to do with the reason many regulars who have been here a while might interpret threads in a different light.

Carry on.
 
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Dreadsox said:
um...never mind:huh:

Clearly the past threads have nothing to do with the reason many regulars who have been here a while might interpret threads in a different light.

Carry on.

Yes there has been US bashing in here before. There has been France bashing, Germany bashing etc. But in a time like this these disussions are useless. Who cares who gave more and why people aren't complaining why certain countries aren't giving x amount. I mean it smacks of desperation when you start comparing two countries contributions. Two countries that aren't even comparable as far as wealth. These comparisons won't help those 150,000, but the contributions these countries have made will help the survivors, that's all that matters.
 
As I said in the other US bashing thread...

it sickens me that people are using this as an excuse to push their agenda.....it helps no one.
 
Dreadsox said:
As I said in the other US bashing thread...

it sickens me that people are using this as an excuse to push their agenda.....it helps no one.

Well, my agenda is "more government aid for the victims of the tsunami." So pushing my agenda actually could help a lot of people.
 
cardosino said:

My point was that Germany is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, not EXACTLY as wealthy as the US, but were not roundly lamabasted as the US was in this forum for giving a LOT less than originally pledged by the US

What exactly is the purpose of making such a point? Are you looking for apologies, or just trying to rub people's noses in shit? I'm asking seriously - why is this point an important one for you to make?

My recollection is that most of the people you're referring to, such as myself, are Americans themselves. Thus they're more likely to complain about the actions of their own government, because they have a nominal say in what it does. It's not a double standard; it's just people participating in their own civic discourse.
 
I just find it interesting that the US contribution of $350million is the same as it cost them to run the war in Iraq for 1 and a half days. story

:eyebrow:
 
sulawesigirl4 said:
I just find it interesting that the US contribution of $350million is the same as it cost them to run the war in Iraq for 1 and a half days. story

:eyebrow:


As much as I am against the War, it was budgeted for and approved by Congress, much of those funds are fo rreconstruction. To pull out at this point would be to abandon the Iraqi people who actually want democracy. Bush is in a real pickle with this one, which is why I was shocked the democrats couldn't kick him out, a slow economy, an unpopular war and he STILL gets re-elected ??!!!??? Says more abotu the democrats than it does anyone else. Still, we digress, don't we ?

The Aid also requires Congress to approve, which i'm sure they will.

Wars are very expensive to run, but also bear in mind that the US has also budgeted for extensive reconstruction in Iraq too.

Since we're talking about things we find interesting:

I find it interesting that North Korea can fund a Nuclear Development program but can't feed it's people.

I find it interesting that Iran can also fund a nuclear program but many are still homeless from the Bam earthquake.

I find it interesting that many African countries can fund, support and equip armies, buy US, European and Russian made fighter jets but need more debt relief (which I am FOR, relax) and aid than ever before.

I find it interesting that little aid appears to have been pledged to help Indonesia from fellow Muslim countries (no, I'm not saying it's a contest, simmah dahn now....)

The world is indeed an interesting place.....
 
cardosino said:

I find it interesting that little aid appears to have been pledged to help Indonesia from fellow Muslim countries (no, I'm not saying it's a contest, simmah dahn now....)

Well, if you're not saying it's a contest, what are you saying, exactly? And are you able to deal with criticism of the US in a more substantial way than to point out which countries you find to be worse?

Besides, you are wrong on this, anyway.
 
strannix said:


Well, if you're not saying it's a contest, what are you saying, exactly?



I'm saying I found it interesting that fellow muslim countries weren't rushing to their aid.

Let me know which words you didn't understand.

strannix said:

And are you able to deal with criticism of the US in a more substantial way than to point out which countries you find to be worse?



I deal with impartial even handed constructive criticism of the US quite well thank you, I'm quite prone to doing it myself.

Since you seem to take a great interest in how I should/should not react to what other countries are doing Should I also not be concerned about this type of aid ? Or should I be spending my time looking for more ways to criticize the US ?


Radicals pitch in to clean up and keep Islamic law
By Matthew Moore, sydney Morning Herald Correspondent in Banda Aceh
January 6, 2005



Radical Islamic groups best known for smashing bars and violent support of the jailed cleric Abu Bakar Bashir have sent large contingents of their members to Aceh with funding provided by the Indonesian Government.

At Banda Aceh's airport, trucks with supplies to be ferried to disaster-struck areas by US Navy helicopters have been unloaded by members of Bashir's group, the MMI, including one man proudly wearing an Osama bin Laden T-shirt.

Members of the FPI (Islamic Defenders Front), famous for its attacks on nightspots in Jakarta, are now living in Banda Aceh in tents provided by the army and the Ministry of Social Affairs.

The head of the FPI contingent, Hilmy Bakar Almascaty, said about 250 members had come to Aceh with tickets provided by the Government; 800 more on board an Indonesian warship would help clean up the devastated province.

"FPI is not only an organisation that destroys bars and discos, it has a humanitarian side as well that the media is not happy to expose," Dr Almascaty said.

Early yesterday 50 of his troops wearing FPI shirts went through a series of military drills before heading off to the city to help collect corpses still not recovered from the millions of tonnes of rubble.
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Dr Almascaty said his group had held discussions with the head of the army, General Ryamizard Ryacudu, the Defence Minister, Juwono Sudarsono and the Vice-President, Jusuf Kalla, and had come to Aceh with the full backing of the Government.

He said his members were in Aceh to help, although the army in the past has often been accused of using Islamic groups to fight its battles, especially in divided communities like Aceh.

Dr Almascaty agreed that, as well as helping gather corpses and clean up mosques, the FPI had come to play another role.

He said he was determined to ensure the arrival of foreign soldiers and aid workers did not lead to a breakdown in the system of syariah, or Islamic law, which has been in nominal operation in Aceh for several years.

"If anyone who comes here does not respect the syariah law, traditions and constitution, we must give them a warning and then we must attack," he said.

Dr Almascaty said his group was co-ordinating with MMI and with another hardline group banned in many countries, Hizbut Tharir, in a plan to curtail Western influence.

"You cannot build a bar here. If you go to your room to drink that is no problem, but you can't drink in a public area," he said.

He warned foreign soldiers and aid workers: "Don't go with Acehnese women, with Muslim women. If you come here and take women and try to westernise them, this is a problem for me."

Dr Almascaty said he had already met the Indonesian military commander in Aceh, General Endang Suwarya, and urged him to set aside areas "to keep the US separate".

The head of the MMI contingent, Salman al Furizi, said his group of 50 young men from central Java had flown to Banda Aceh on a military aircraft. He was prepared to put aside his vehement opposition to the US because of the help it was providing.

"We have to understand this is a disaster, so we are not talking about other problems," he said.

Dr Almascaty also welcomed the Americans and other traditional enemies of his group. "At the moment they have come as an angel," he said. "We don't know about tomorrow."
 
strannix said:


Yes, of course, but ... what's the point? Interesting in what way?

Its pretty simple and painfully obvious strannix.
Even though the Muslim world generally hates the USA, the USA have gave generously to ppl who hate them.

Tell us you get it now.

thx
db9:wink:
 
diamond said:


Its pretty simple and painfully obvious strannix.
Even though the Muslim world generally hates the USA, the USA have gave generously to ppl who hate them.

Tell us you get it now.

thx
db9:wink:

Well, let's just all pat ourselves on the back for our wondrous moral superiority. Jesus.

cardosino, was this really your point? That we're better than they are? I hope not.
 
strannix said:


Well, let's just all pat ourselves on the back for our wondrous moral superiority. Jesus.

cardosino, was this really your point? That we're better than they are? I hope not.

There is some serious leaps of logic in reaching the conclusion you came to based on what the previous guy just wrote.

Sometimes when written, things aren't always interpreted the way they would be if the discussion were face to face, but seriously dude, if the message you got from the previous pooster was that we are better than they are,.....well......I won't say anything here that could be misinterpreted, but all I ask is that you re-read it, take a 2nd look, and ask yourself if that's really what you think they meant.

If you still come up with the same answer, so be it.
 
strannix said:


Well, let's just all pat ourselves on the back for our wondrous moral superiority. Jesus.

cardosino, was this really your point? That we're better than they are? I hope not.

2 days later and 2 pages later and it still sounds like all some want to do is prove they are better. I sure hope to God that none of the survivors who get this aid and have lost loved ones don't see this type of self centeredness and arrogance from those that are representing those countries that gave aid.:sad:

This thread is truly discusting and I will no longer participate in this discussion anymore.
 
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cardosino said:


but all I ask is that you re-read it, take a 2nd look, and ask yourself if that's really what you think they meant.

If you still come up with the same answer, so be it.

Done.

And there's not a doubt in my mind.
 
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