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Old 10-08-2007, 09:19 AM   #226
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GREENVILLE, South Carolina (CNN) — After speaking to an evangelical church on Sunday in this traditionally conservative South Carolina city, Sen. Barack Obama said that Republicans no longer have a firm grip on religion in political discourse.

"I think its important particularly for those of us in the Democratic Party to not cede values and faith to any one party," Obama told reporters outside the Redemption World Outreach Center where he attended services.

"I think that what you're seeing is a breaking down of the sharp divisions that existed maybe during the nineties, when at least in politics the perception was that the Democrats were fearful of talking about faith, and on the other hand you had the Republicans who had a particular brand of faith that often times seemed intolerant or pushed people away," he said.

Obama noted that he was pleased leaders in the evangelical community like T.D. Jakes and Rick Warren were beginning to discuss social justice issues like AIDS and poverty in ways evangelicals were not doing before.

"I think that's a healthy thing, that we're not putting people in boxes, that everybody is out there trying to figure out how do we live right and how do we create a stronger America," Obama said.

During the nearly two hour service that featured a rock band and hip-hop dancers, Obama shared the floor with the church's pastor, Ron Carpenter. The senator from Illinois asked the multiracial crowd of nearly 4,000 people to keep him and his family in their prayers, and said he hoped to be "an instrument of God."

"Sometimes this is a difficult road being in politics," Obama said. "Sometimes you can become fearful, sometimes you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power just for power's sake instead of because you want to do service to God. I just want all of you to pray that I can be an instrument of God in the same way that Pastor Ron and all of you are instruments of God."

He finished his brief remarks by saying, "We're going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth."

Asked by CNN if he talks about faith more in churchgoing South Carolina than he does in the other early voting states of Iowa and New Hampshire, Obama said: "I don't talk about it all the time, but when I'm in church I talk about it."
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:44 AM   #227
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GREENVILLE, South Carolina (CNN) — After speaking to an evangelical church on Sunday in this traditionally conservative South Carolina city, Sen. Barack Obama said that Republicans no longer have a firm grip on religion in political discourse.

"I think its important particularly for those of us in the Democratic Party to not cede values and faith to any one party," Obama told reporters outside the Redemption World Outreach Center where he attended services.

"I think that what you're seeing is a breaking down of the sharp divisions that existed maybe during the nineties, when at least in politics the perception was that the Democrats were fearful of talking about faith, and on the other hand you had the Republicans who had a particular brand of faith that often times seemed intolerant or pushed people away," he said.

Obama noted that he was pleased leaders in the evangelical community like T.D. Jakes and Rick Warren were beginning to discuss social justice issues like AIDS and poverty in ways evangelicals were not doing before.

"I think that's a healthy thing, that we're not putting people in boxes, that everybody is out there trying to figure out how do we live right and how do we create a stronger America," Obama said.

During the nearly two hour service that featured a rock band and hip-hop dancers, Obama shared the floor with the church's pastor, Ron Carpenter. The senator from Illinois asked the multiracial crowd of nearly 4,000 people to keep him and his family in their prayers, and said he hoped to be "an instrument of God."

"Sometimes this is a difficult road being in politics," Obama said. "Sometimes you can become fearful, sometimes you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power just for power's sake instead of because you want to do service to God. I just want all of you to pray that I can be an instrument of God in the same way that Pastor Ron and all of you are instruments of God."

He finished his brief remarks by saying, "We're going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth."

Asked by CNN if he talks about faith more in churchgoing South Carolina than he does in the other early voting states of Iowa and New Hampshire, Obama said: "I don't talk about it all the time, but when I'm in church I talk about it."
I agree with him. His chapter on Faith in his book "The Audacity of Hope" really gives even more detail on how faith can really be vital to politics while still maintaining the separation between church and state. It really opened up a new perspective for me.
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:48 AM   #228
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He finished his brief remarks by saying, "We're going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth."
I have to say that this kind of talk from any presidential candidtae makes me a little jumpy.
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:53 AM   #229
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I think he's just talking about making real change in the world instead of just talking about the utopia that is whatever religious kingdom one may or may not believe in and sitting around waiting for that. It's about putting faith into action and not just words. That's just my take on it.
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:57 AM   #230
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I have to say that this kind of talk from any presidential candidtae makes me a little jumpy.
I would agree in the sense that some people could easily misinterpret in that statement. His wording could make it seem like he's talking about creating some weird, religious kingdom that tries to take over and enforce it's law (you know, Religious Right style). I would guess, though, based on what I read in his book that he's talking more about the Kingdom of God as its described in The Bible, in terms of God's perfect will for earth, with equality, justice, mercy, care for the planet and everything that lives on it, etc. Those qualities are something everyone can get behind, regardless of their personal, religious beliefs. Obviously, a non-Believer would not credit his or her convictions to God which is perfectly fine and right. However, those of us who are people of faith can't ignore their message throughout The Bible, and if we ignore it, we're doing the exact opposite of what Jesus spoke to us do, and the "Kingdom" is a far-off dream. I do think, that in this society, we need a less off-putting metaphor than kingdom though. I feel like that carries a bad connotation for many people in our time. I have no idea how we would go about this, but I think it's something those of us who are Christians need to seriously look at.
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:58 AM   #231
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I think he's just talking about making real change in the world instead of just talking about the utopia that is whatever religious kingdom one may or may not believe in and sitting around waiting for that. It's about putting faith into action and not just words. That's just my take on it.
I would agree with you. That's the gist of what I was trying to say. I think you just put it more clearly and succinctly.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:23 PM   #232
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I have to say that this kind of talk from any presidential candidtae makes me a little jumpy.
If he were a conservative he would have been harrassed for those comments 24/7.

dbs
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:31 PM   #233
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Newsweek
Updated: 10:39 a.m. ET Oct 8, 2007

Oct. 8, 2007 - Al Gore is not running for president. But might the publicity and sheen of a Nobel Peace Prize change his mind? Some Democratic activists sure hope so.

Grass-roots Gore loyalists have been buzzing for weeks about the Nobel Prize announcement scheduled for Oct. 12 in Oslo, Norway. Gore was nominated for his work on global warming, and several longtime Nobel observers believe this could be the year that a champion of climate change gets the prize. “We feel that if [Gore] wins the Nobel Prize … then he can’t not run for president,” says Roy Gayhart, a San Diego-based organizer of a California draft Gore group.

For Gore supporters like Gayhart, the real inconvenient truth is that the former veep is not a candidate—and may never become one, no matter what happens in Oslo on Friday. Gore, who won an Emmy last month for his Current TV channel and whose film, “An Inconvenient Truth,” won an Oscar last February, has said nothing to indicate that he would run, and his Nashville office didn’t return several phone calls and e-mails seeking comment for this story. But unlike 2004, when his Shermanesque statement stopped supporters dead in their tracks, Gore has not completely closed the door on the idea.

Encouraged, "Draft Gore" organizations from Washington to Michigan to Massachusetts are working to put Gore’s name on 2008 primary ballots. The number of volunteers in the California 4 Gore group has more than doubled to 1,100 since early August, enough to circulate petitions in all 53 congressional districts. The national DraftGore.com group, which has gathered about 127,000 signatures this year—10,000 of them on Sept. 28 alone thanks in part to a segment on Randi Rhodes’s Air America radio show—plans to place a full-page ad in The New York Times in the coming days as an open letter to Gore urging him to run, says the group’s Eva Ritchey. Meanwhile another new coalition called America For Gore initiated a “Two Cents Worth” campaign to encourage supporters nationwide to mail two pennies in an envelope to Gore’s office to encourage a run.

Gore supporters figure a Nobel win would burnish his reputation and remind Democrats that he’s been a leader fighting what voters consider the world’s premier environmental battle. “It makes him look like the knight in shining armor,” says Stephen Cohen, president of the New York Draft Al Gore PAC. No one but the Nobel committee knows how Gore might fare. He’s one of 181 candidates, a list including Bolivian President Evo Morales, Finnish peace broker Martti Ahtisaari and Chinese dissident Rebiya Kadeer. Some Gore backers think he's already decided to run, but speculate that he doesn't want politics to interfere with his Nobel chances.

Even most diehard Gore supporters agree the next few weeks are do-or-die for a Gore candidacy. The New York state petition drive must gather 5,000 signatures during a short legal window between Halloween and early December. Gore supporters in Michigan launched a petition drive last week that must secure 12,396 valid signatures by Oct. 23—and a signed candidate affidavit from Gore himself—to place his name on next year’s primary ballot. (Gore backers there draw hope from an Aug. 14 Detroit News/WXYZ-TV statewide poll of 400 likely Democratic voters in which Gore had 36 percent, beating Hillary Clinton, who had 32 percent, and the rest of the field.)

But even the optimists are philosophical about their chances of talking Gore into the race. “I know it’s still a real long shot that he’ll run,” acknowledges Fred Koed of the Massachusetts Draft Gore group. “If I were in his shoes, after the devastating and painful loss in 2000, I’d really have to search inside myself to see if it was all worth doing again. He’ll just have to determine if this is right for him.” In the meantime, Koed and his cohorts hope the Gore faithful—and the Nobel committee—can help him make up his mind.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:34 PM   #234
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I think he's just talking about making real change in the world instead of just talking about the utopia that is whatever religious kingdom one may or may not believe in and sitting around waiting for that. It's about putting faith into action and not just words. That's just my take on it.
I think you're right in your interpretation.

But at the same time it really goes to show how Christianity has changed and morphed since its early days, when individuals were preoccupied with preparing their hearts for the arrival of the Kingdom. Of course they thought it would be any day...not 2000+ years later. But at some point it became something other than a personal, individual struggle (albeit within a community of believers) and that goes a long way to explaining the sort of "code" language we hear these days.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:40 PM   #235
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I think you're right in your interpretation.

But at the same time it really goes to show how Christianity has changed and morphed since its early days, when individuals were preoccupied with preparing their hearts for the arrival of the Kingdom. Of course they thought it would be any day...not 2000+ years later. But at some point it became something other than a personal, individual struggle (albeit within a community of believers) and that goes a long way to explaining the sort of "code" language we hear these days.
You're right. Every time I read the Gospels I'm struck by how similar the Jews of Jesus' time are in some ways to the fundamentalist Christians of ours. They expected Jesus to come and create a literal kingdom where all the bad, nasty heathens would be overthrown, and they would rule and make all their ways law. It's exactly what the religious right is trying to do in this country. Yet, that's not what Jesus asked and wanted for earth. He wanted a place where everyone would be equal, where the poor would be treated as diginifed human beings, not oppressed. He wanted a place where justice and mercy would reign for all people. He wanted a non-violent world, He wanted those of us who claim to be His followers to have a hand in making this happen. I just don't get how anyone can read the Gospels and not want to be a part of this, but unfortunately this isn't the case with most Christians. We're too busy trying to "put-Pharisee" each other and create the kind of kingdom Jesus came to destroy.
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:58 PM   #236
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she does look unstoppable.

but we can't totally toss aside Obama's doners and fundraising ability. her support may be wide, but at this stage in the game when most people haven't yet taken a hard look at the candidates, it might also be shallow.

and if she were to get the nomination, i think she'd be foolish to pass up a VP Obama. he might not bring any swing electoral votes (like Richardson might) but he can bring the cash.
No one is unstoppable at this point and no candidate can be tossed aside. Just look at where things were at this point in 2003. Dean and Gephardt were the ones battling it out for 1st place in Iowa, Dean and Lieberman were at the top of all the national polls, and Dean was in the lead with the fundraising race. But, it was Kerry and Edwards, who were expected to finish 3rd and 4th in Iowa, who wound up as the last two candidates standing.

And Hillary would be absolutely completely foolish to tap Obama (or Richardson) to be her VP. No one in their right mind would put two minorities on the ticket. And no one votes for the VP, they vote for the top of the ticket - so no VP is going to bring in swing electoral votes.
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:24 AM   #237
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And Hillary would be absolutely completely foolish to tap Obama (or Richardson) to be her VP. No one in their right mind would put two minorities on the ticket. And no one votes for the VP, they vote for the top of the ticket - so no VP is going to bring in swing electoral votes.
If she gets the nomination

she should delegate the search and interviewing to Bill Clinton


and after the interviews
he can announce who he believes is best suited to the job
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:07 AM   #238
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I'm not particularly impressed by Obama's comments on the importance of faith. It sounds like naked pandering for votes to me. I don't really trust politicians who talk about religion too much. It just seems manipulative to me.

Doesn't the Bible talk about not taking pains to "show off" your religiosity?

And this is from an Obama admirer.
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:37 AM   #239
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And Hillary would be absolutely completely foolish to tap Obama (or Richardson) to be her VP. No one in their right mind would put two minorities on the ticket.
Since when is being a woman a minority?
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Old 10-09-2007, 08:35 AM   #240
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If he were a conservative he would have been harrassed for those comments 24/7.

dbs


I was just about to post the exact same thing.
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