phillyfan26
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I cannot claim credit, I believe Irvine has used it before when people have used similar leaps of logic.
US 2008 Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread - Part 9
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Earnie Shavers
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But this, to me, is where Fox and CNN are truly different. I don’t care that Fox is so conservative. It’s blatant and open and obvious – and that makes it fine. I wouldn’t care if CNN moved as far left as Fox is right, either (and come on, they’re not even close to being the same thing at opposite ends). The difference to me, and what really bugs me about Fox, is that hysteria. It’s dumbed down significantly, then the hysteria always turned right up.
I was flicking between the two after the debate finished. On CNN you had a very measured and intelligent panel moderated by Anderson Cooper. On Fox, you had Sean Hannity screaming and shouting at, mostly, himself. Sure, no doubt every one of the people on the CNN panel will vote for Obama and lean their given opinions towards Obama, and sure, Sean Hannity, with a McCain-Palin sign as his backdrop (!!), will spend the hour interviewing McCain supporters about how great McCain was. If you can’t see that and adjust for that, you’re an idiot. I don’t mind that though. The difference is in the style and substance. One was a calm conversation that systematically went through every point and difference in the debate, the other was a screaming tabloid column brought to life. I would have far more respect for Fox if they ever tried to present an intelligent conservative point of view. They never, ever do.
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
im wondering how the poll numbers would have looked now if john had picked mitt.
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diamond
ONE love, blood, life
obama not honoring the wishes of slain soldier's family:
Family Told Obama NOT To Wear Soldier Son's Bracelet... Where is Media? | NewsBusters.org
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Family Told Obama NOT To Wear Soldier Son's Bracelet... Where is Media? | NewsBusters.org
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corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
If that's the case, then that's a shame. I wish neither candidate felt the need to go down that route. Regardless of whether or not their feelings about the soldier and the family are genuine, it always feels like a cheap stunt to me.
As an aside only of interest to me, the soldier in question here is from a town in Wisconsin not very far from my own hometown.
As an aside only of interest to me, the soldier in question here is from a town in Wisconsin not very far from my own hometown.
Harry Vest
Refugee
If this was Palin, or for that matter McCain, is anybody in here going to tell me it wouldn't be FRONT PAGE NEWS and talked about over and over until Thursday's debate. Hence the difference in the media's treatment of the candidates. In the context of this election's "controversies" this one is pretty big - we'll see if it gets any play by anyone other than FOX.
BVS
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yolland
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Soldier's mother 'ecstatic' about Obama's bracelet
By DINESH RAMDE, Assocated Press, Sept. 28
MILWAUKEE — The mother of a Wisconsin soldier who died in Iraq says she was "ecstatic" when Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama mentioned during Friday's debate the bracelet she gave him in honor of her son. Tracy Jopek of Merrill told The Associated Press on Sunday she was honored that Obama remembered Sgt. Ryan David Jopek, who was killed in 2006 by a roadside bomb.
Jopek criticized Internet reports suggesting Obama, D-Ill., exploited her son for political purposes. "I don't understand how people can take that and turn it into some garbage on the Internet," she said.
Jopek acknowledged e-mailing the Obama campaign in February asking that the presidential candidate not mention her son in speeches or debates. But she said Obama's mention on Friday was appropriate because he was responding after Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee, said a soldier's mother gave him a bracelet.
"I've got a bracelet, too, from Sergeant—from the mother of Sergeant Ryan David Jopek, given to me in Green Bay," Obama said during the debate. "She asked me, 'Can you please make sure another mother is not going through what I'm going through?' No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided."
Jopek says Obama's comment rightfully suggested there's more than one viewpoint on the war. She wouldn't directly say whether she wanted Obama to refrain from mentioning the bracelet again, but said she hopes the issue will just go away. "I think these bracelets should be looked upon as an honor that both candidates wear them to respect the troops," Jopek said. "My request to both of them is that they honor the troops by lifting the conversation to the issues, and that they continue to live up to the standards our military deserves."
By DINESH RAMDE, Assocated Press, Sept. 28
MILWAUKEE — The mother of a Wisconsin soldier who died in Iraq says she was "ecstatic" when Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama mentioned during Friday's debate the bracelet she gave him in honor of her son. Tracy Jopek of Merrill told The Associated Press on Sunday she was honored that Obama remembered Sgt. Ryan David Jopek, who was killed in 2006 by a roadside bomb.
Jopek criticized Internet reports suggesting Obama, D-Ill., exploited her son for political purposes. "I don't understand how people can take that and turn it into some garbage on the Internet," she said.
Jopek acknowledged e-mailing the Obama campaign in February asking that the presidential candidate not mention her son in speeches or debates. But she said Obama's mention on Friday was appropriate because he was responding after Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee, said a soldier's mother gave him a bracelet.
"I've got a bracelet, too, from Sergeant—from the mother of Sergeant Ryan David Jopek, given to me in Green Bay," Obama said during the debate. "She asked me, 'Can you please make sure another mother is not going through what I'm going through?' No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided."
Jopek says Obama's comment rightfully suggested there's more than one viewpoint on the war. She wouldn't directly say whether she wanted Obama to refrain from mentioning the bracelet again, but said she hopes the issue will just go away. "I think these bracelets should be looked upon as an honor that both candidates wear them to respect the troops," Jopek said. "My request to both of them is that they honor the troops by lifting the conversation to the issues, and that they continue to live up to the standards our military deserves."
Harry Vest
Refugee
How is it BIG?
It's certainly bigger than Palin's pregnant daughter or the "Bush Doctrine" stumble. The guy's parents specifically asked that Obama not wear it and yet he continued to do so. If I were a republican strategist I would jump over this thing wearing lead boots. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a political ad is being produced as I type. If we don't hear about this on CNN, ABC, NBC, PBS or CBS we'll know certain folks on FYM are right about a media bias.
Harry Vest
Refugee
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Wait, wait... You mean newsbusters lied again?
I thought there was a liberal media agenda?!
I thought there was a liberal media agenda?!
According to his mother, they did not.
This clearly smells like a family dispute between divorced parents and little more.
But nice job to hysterically jump all over Obama the moment you could.
phillyfan26
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corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
It sure does.
Vincent Vega
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Not to mention that he was allegedly asked not to mention it. Nothing about wearing it.
I agree. It seems the parents have colliding views on the war, or even the father's quotes were made up.
I especially liked this quote and would prefer more people took that to heart, not only the candidates:
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
"My request to both of them is that they honor the troops by lifting the conversation to the issues,"
Hear that, candidates? It doesn't mean trot out their names to play a round of "I Cry More Over The Dead Soldiers Than You Do".
Thank you.
Hear that, candidates? It doesn't mean trot out their names to play a round of "I Cry More Over The Dead Soldiers Than You Do".
Thank you.
maycocksean
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
I agree. You wear one of those, you don't talk about it. Especially in that setting.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
abcnews.com
Obama: McCain 'Katrina-Like' on Economy
Rips McCain for Delayed Response; Both Candidates Gingerly Embrace Bailout
By RON CLAIBORNE, JOHN BERMAN and KRISTIN RED-HORSE
Sept. 28, 2008 —
Presidential contenders Barack Obama and John McCain gingerly are embracing the bailout deal, with McCain calling it "something that all of us will swallow hard and go forward with."
With the country's attention focused on bailout negotiations at the Capitol, McCain and Obama largely have been sticking to the topic at hand.
The McCain campaign allowed cameras to capture him "working the phones" from his condo in suburban Virginia.
Obama had three rallies this weekend centered on the economy, at which he repeatedly declared, "I think John McCain doesn't get it." At one event, he even accused McCain of a "Katrina-like response" to the financial crisis.
The past few days have been rough for McCain.
He declared Wednesday that he was suspending his campaign to get involved in the bailout talks, a move Democrats and even some Republicans have derided as grandstanding.
On ABC News' "This Week with George Stephanopoulos," McCain was asked how much he actually helped with negotiations.
"I will let you and others ... be the judge of that," he said. "I did the best that I could."
In addition, polls suggested voters felt Obama won the first McCain-Obama debate on Friday.
And on Saturday, McCain's running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, was skewered in a "Saturday Night Live" sketch over an interview she gave to CBS' Katie Couric.
With criticism of Palin mounting, there may be heavy pressure on her to deliver a strong performance during a vice-presidential debate on Thursday.
"There's going to continue to be a little bit of a murmur," said Kevin Madden, a political analyst and former spokesman for Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, "that maybe this was the wrong pick, that maybe she doesn't have the national exposure that's needed to really get through a national campaign ... even among some conservatives."
Meanwhile, Obama kept up the pressure, using the economic crisis as a hammer to pound away at John McCain any chance he got.
"His first response to the greatest financial meltdown in generations was a Katrina-like response," Obama said today in Detroit. "[McCain] sort of stood there, said the 'fundamentals of the economy are strong.'"
The struggles on Wall Street have been seen as an opportunity for Obama because polls say Americans trust him rather than McCain to handle the economy.
Today, he suggested he deserved credit for the bailout compromise worked out in Washington.
"When it comes to protecting taxpayers," Obama said on CBS' "Face the Nation," "I was pushing very hard and involved in shaping those provisions."
But with the bailout plan comes opportunity, McCain hopes. If the plan calms financial markets, it could allow him to re-focus the political debate from the economy to where he wants it: who's better prepared to be commander-in-chief.
Obama: McCain 'Katrina-Like' on Economy
Rips McCain for Delayed Response; Both Candidates Gingerly Embrace Bailout
By RON CLAIBORNE, JOHN BERMAN and KRISTIN RED-HORSE
Sept. 28, 2008 —
Presidential contenders Barack Obama and John McCain gingerly are embracing the bailout deal, with McCain calling it "something that all of us will swallow hard and go forward with."
With the country's attention focused on bailout negotiations at the Capitol, McCain and Obama largely have been sticking to the topic at hand.
The McCain campaign allowed cameras to capture him "working the phones" from his condo in suburban Virginia.
Obama had three rallies this weekend centered on the economy, at which he repeatedly declared, "I think John McCain doesn't get it." At one event, he even accused McCain of a "Katrina-like response" to the financial crisis.
The past few days have been rough for McCain.
He declared Wednesday that he was suspending his campaign to get involved in the bailout talks, a move Democrats and even some Republicans have derided as grandstanding.
On ABC News' "This Week with George Stephanopoulos," McCain was asked how much he actually helped with negotiations.
"I will let you and others ... be the judge of that," he said. "I did the best that I could."
In addition, polls suggested voters felt Obama won the first McCain-Obama debate on Friday.
And on Saturday, McCain's running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, was skewered in a "Saturday Night Live" sketch over an interview she gave to CBS' Katie Couric.
With criticism of Palin mounting, there may be heavy pressure on her to deliver a strong performance during a vice-presidential debate on Thursday.
"There's going to continue to be a little bit of a murmur," said Kevin Madden, a political analyst and former spokesman for Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, "that maybe this was the wrong pick, that maybe she doesn't have the national exposure that's needed to really get through a national campaign ... even among some conservatives."
Meanwhile, Obama kept up the pressure, using the economic crisis as a hammer to pound away at John McCain any chance he got.
"His first response to the greatest financial meltdown in generations was a Katrina-like response," Obama said today in Detroit. "[McCain] sort of stood there, said the 'fundamentals of the economy are strong.'"
The struggles on Wall Street have been seen as an opportunity for Obama because polls say Americans trust him rather than McCain to handle the economy.
Today, he suggested he deserved credit for the bailout compromise worked out in Washington.
"When it comes to protecting taxpayers," Obama said on CBS' "Face the Nation," "I was pushing very hard and involved in shaping those provisions."
But with the bailout plan comes opportunity, McCain hopes. If the plan calms financial markets, it could allow him to re-focus the political debate from the economy to where he wants it: who's better prepared to be commander-in-chief.
McCain's apparently going to come out with a statement this afternoon saying that the failure of the bill to go through was the fault of Barack Obama & the Democrats, as they clearly put politics first instead of country.
What a douchebag!!!
It's primarily the Democrats who voted for the damn thing, not against it (60% of dems, <30% of repubs)! The Republicans even got their insurance bit in there, and they still voted against it. They're listening to their lame-brained constituents (who are dumb enough to think that the bill is simply "us paying for Wall Street's mistakes" and not recognizing that it's to make sure you can get a loan for your house, car, school, business, etc.) and are afraid they won't get re-elected if they vote for it. Looks to me like the people who didn't vote for it are putting politics over country first.
Come on. You parachuted in to capture all the headlines. Said you could leave because you got the changes you wanted. And then your own guys didn't even vote for it!
Seriously, when McCain claims at the next debate that Obama "used the economic crisis for political gain," I want Obama to say this: "Listen, America, let's look at the facts. John McCain spent 26 years voting for deregulation. When deregulation killed the economy last month, John McCain said our economy was strong. When polls said that the American people felt I could handle the economy better than he could, he flew into Washington with cameras blazing--and yet claimed I was using the crisis for political gain. Then, after he spent his day in Washington and got his photo ops, his own party stalled talks. His party's demands were included in the bill, and John McCain claimed credit for the bill that went to the floor. But his own party refused to vote for it. Then, then, he claimed that I was responsible for the failing of the bill. And he says that I've been using the economic crisis for political gain. <chuckle>"
What a douchebag!
What a douchebag!!!
It's primarily the Democrats who voted for the damn thing, not against it (60% of dems, <30% of repubs)! The Republicans even got their insurance bit in there, and they still voted against it. They're listening to their lame-brained constituents (who are dumb enough to think that the bill is simply "us paying for Wall Street's mistakes" and not recognizing that it's to make sure you can get a loan for your house, car, school, business, etc.) and are afraid they won't get re-elected if they vote for it. Looks to me like the people who didn't vote for it are putting politics over country first.
Come on. You parachuted in to capture all the headlines. Said you could leave because you got the changes you wanted. And then your own guys didn't even vote for it!
Seriously, when McCain claims at the next debate that Obama "used the economic crisis for political gain," I want Obama to say this: "Listen, America, let's look at the facts. John McCain spent 26 years voting for deregulation. When deregulation killed the economy last month, John McCain said our economy was strong. When polls said that the American people felt I could handle the economy better than he could, he flew into Washington with cameras blazing--and yet claimed I was using the crisis for political gain. Then, after he spent his day in Washington and got his photo ops, his own party stalled talks. His party's demands were included in the bill, and John McCain claimed credit for the bill that went to the floor. But his own party refused to vote for it. Then, then, he claimed that I was responsible for the failing of the bill. And he says that I've been using the economic crisis for political gain. <chuckle>"
What a douchebag!
McCain couldn't even deliver the Arizona Congressmen - they all voted against the Bill, so he really has no room to talk.
He hinged his campaign on this Bill, acting irrationally like a white knight coming to save Washington. Well congratulations, you are the owner of EPIC PHAIL.
I don't believe the voters are interested in his pathetic blame game at this point. The negativity is really doing wonders for him in the polls. This is one of the worst campaigns I've ever seen run and I saw Bob Dole.
He hinged his campaign on this Bill, acting irrationally like a white knight coming to save Washington. Well congratulations, you are the owner of EPIC PHAIL.
I don't believe the voters are interested in his pathetic blame game at this point. The negativity is really doing wonders for him in the polls. This is one of the worst campaigns I've ever seen run and I saw Bob Dole.
purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Don't get caught on a battlefield against the U.S. and you won't get picked up.
McCain attacks Guantanamo decision - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com
McCain is complaining here about some of the released prisoners. Some have attacked American soldiers. What we are worried about is these people being released and then having to battle them later.
Supreme Disgrace by Peter Wehner on National Review Online
This is the legal point of view.
Vanessa Redgrave thinks it's kidnapping but what are you supposed to do when you rout an enemy and catch prisoners? Send them back to meet them again? If soldiers then get killed won't there be criticism of Bush then? Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
I'm not talking about 9/11. I'm talking about foiled terrorist attacks in the U.S. and Canada. My point is that there is a danger and it's not hyped.
Unfortunately, yes. If this were a real war, you know, one with an end...then you keep an enemy combatant (formerly known as P.O.W....they are indeed members of an organized resistance, so they qualify as P.O.W.s, so lets call them that and see how we feel about them then) until the end of the war.
But how does a "War on Terrorism" end? When does it end? Is an end really even possible?
I don't think so.
So you're left with what? Keeping these guys their whole lives until they die?
Words of comfort for Maher Arar, I'm sure.
phillyfan26
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Now you've strangely painted this as a black and white case where you either imprison them or release them. Maybe we can use the United States legal system and put them on trial. That's my suggestion.
purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Well I've processed tax returns with CBC donation slips, but certainly there are differences between large endowments and personal donations. The point I was making to someone else was that without government funding and donations they wouldn't survive.
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