US 2008 Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread - Part 9

[deep]

it continues ...

Gallup Daily: Obama 50%, McCain 44%

if we adjust for White Privilage and "racial misgivings and negative views toward blacks"


the true numbers would be: Obama 60%, McCain 34%

 

[U2democrat]

I am sure it was an enthusiastic crowd.
Madeleine is a hottie.

She's short! I'm short, and when I shook her hand we she was just below my eye level...and she was in heels!

She did a great job though, the crowd was really fired up, and relieved to hear such intelligent talk on foreign policy...but I got them started for her

 

[Irvine511]

if we adjust for White Privilage and "racial misgivings and negative views toward blacks"


the true numbers would be: Obama 60%, McCain 34%

i wouldn't doubt that.

we might reach those numbers anyway if Obama can successfully remind everyone, especially the elderly in FL, that Mr. McCain is a big, big fan of social security privatization.

 

[anitram]

At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between Gov. Sarah Palin and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.

McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/u...21942908-MlGVvoKJV8yoqi8R1fptAA).&oref=slogin

Sarah Palin is dim. They know it, and they don't want the rest of us knowing it.

But she's bloody dim.

 

[U2Fanatic4ever]

^ that she is and this says a lot of what is known all along..

 

[deep]

When I set up and moderate a debate
it is more free-wheeling and lively

Newport candidates duke it out at debate

Forum leads to barbs about honesty, development and transparent government.

By JEFF OVERLEY
THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER


NEWPORT BEACH – This year's four-person race for City Council seemed more like a pair of duels when candidates got together for a debate this week.

That's fitting, thanks to Newport Beach's system of districting, which pits incumbent Keith Curry against retired businesswoman Dolores Otting in District 7 and Councilman Steve Rosansky against former superintendent Gloria Alkire in District 2.

In a hourlong forum at the Newport Beach Yacht Club, the four candidates filled a good portion of the time training fire on their respective adversaries.

Otting was the most aggressive, saying the council had passed "taxes disguised as fees" and formed special committees that are "marginally legal" because their members meet behind closed doors.

She targeted Curry on the issue of building a fire station at Crystal Cove to improve response times, which Curry says is neither necessary nor financially justifiable.

"Why don't you care enough to at least put a trailer up there (for firefighters)?" Otting asked.

Curry tried to stay above the fray, highlighting city accomplishments during his time on the dais. "Two years ago, I stood up here and asked for your vote," Curry told the crowd. "So it's fair tonight to say, what have you done?"

Answering his own question, Curry detailed a laundry list of projects, including the Newport Coast Community Center and Back Bay Science Center, launched and completed during his tenure.

When Otting said the council was issuing too much debt to finance public projects, and instead advocated soliciting donations from the town's "affluent people," Curry bristled, calling it an unreliable proposal and saying afterward that his opponent wanted to "shake down rich people."

Alkire, given the chance to ask her opponent a question, tried to undermine Rosansky's integrity on the issue of Sunset Ridge Park, a planned active park she said residents were falsely led to believe might be preserved as passive open space.

"Isn't it your responsibility to tell people the truth?" she asked.

Rosansky was incredulous, saying he'd seen newspaper articles as far back as 1992 that detailed plans for sports fields on the site. Indeed, a Register story from 2000 describes planned ball fields on the property.

Alkire also seemed to stumble when Rosansky questioned her call for a "change of direction." He described new parks and limits on John Wayne Airport expansion achieved during his time on the council, and asked her where she found fault.

Alkire, in an apparent attempt to suggest Rosansky doesn't deserve credit for those efforts, said that city staff "do that with or without good counsel from the council." But the comment seemed only to negate the importance of the council, regardless of its members.

Both Otting and Alkire panned a proposed legal settlement with Sober Living by the Sea, the city's largest operator of drug rehab homes, while the incumbents backed the deal.

Candidates did find common ground on Banning Ranch, agreeing that 400-acre area might ultimately be developed in a compromise proposal that makes the developer foot the bill for cleaning up the site's open space.

Mayor Ed Selich, who did not take part in the debate, is also seeking re-election but is running unopposed.

 

[MsPurrl]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/u...21942908-MlGVvoKJV8yoqi8R1fptAA).&oref=slogin

Sarah Palin is dim. They know it, and they don't want the rest of us knowing it.

But she's bloody dim.

And this dim bulb would be literally one heartbeat away from the presidency, if elected as vice president to a 72-year-old man. Come on, people!!

 

[Irvine511]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/u...21942908-MlGVvoKJV8yoqi8R1fptAA).&oref=slogin

Sarah Palin is dim. They know it, and they don't want the rest of us knowing it.

But she's bloody dim.

i hope Putin's taking notes.

 

[deep]

i hope Putin's taking notes.

he can see her house from his backyard

 

[U2democrat]

he can see her house from his backyard

 

[Lila64]

I just got back from kicking off a town hall meeting with Madeleine Albright I love talking in front of a crowd of enthusiastic Democrats

Feel free to post more details. Or PM them

 

[Lila64]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/u...21942908-MlGVvoKJV8yoqi8R1fptAA).&oref=slogin

Sarah Palin is dim. They know it, and they don't want the rest of us knowing it.

But she's bloody dim.

And this dim bulb would be literally one heartbeat away from the presidency, if elected as vice president to a 72-year-old man. Come on, people!!

 

[financeguy]

when I shook her hand:

I hope that you washed it afterwards.

That woman has as much blood on her hands as Busch/Cheney.

 

[Strongbow]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/u...21942908-MlGVvoKJV8yoqi8R1fptAA).&oref=slogin

Sarah Palin is dim. They know it, and they don't want the rest of us knowing it.

But she's bloody dim.

What was Barack Obama's response to 10 town hall meetings over the summer with John McCain?

 

[Strongbow]

i wouldn't doubt that.

we might reach those numbers anyway if Obama can successfully remind everyone, especially the elderly in FL, that Mr. McCain is a big, big fan of social security privatization.

Still hoping for that Tsunami.

 

[Strongbow]

if we adjust for White Privilage and "racial misgivings and negative views toward blacks"


the true numbers would be: Obama 60%, McCain 34%

Really? Do any head to head polls of McCain VS. Hillary Clinton or John Edwards show them getting that type of a lead?

 

[deep]

Really, I don't believe it
but, I know a lot of people do

I think that White Privilege article was poorly written
with quite a bit of flawed reasoning

 

[maycocksean]

Really, I don't believe it
but, I know a lot of people do

I think that White Privilege article was poorly written
with quite a bit of flawed reasoning

I agree. It was over the top. But there were some elements of truth in it though.

 

[yolland]

FiveThirtyEight.com: Electoral Projections Done Right: Senate Polling Update, 9/20

Although the Democrats have gained ground in a handful of key races, their chances of picking up a working, 60-seat majority in the 111th Congress have diminished.

The principal states for Democratic gains are in Minnesota, where Al Franken now rates as having a 42% chance to upend Norm Coleman, up from 29% in our last update, and in Oregon, where Jeff Merkley now has a 38% chance of beating Gordon Smith, considerably up from 22%. The Democrats have also picked up a little bit of ground in North Carolina, where the polls tightened significantly as of about a month ago and have remained that way ever since.

The good news for Democrats, however, ends there. Sarah Palin's candidacy has resurrected Ted Stevens' prospects in Alaska, who now has a 25% chance of retaining his seat, up from 12% in the last update. There is no small irony in the fact that Palin, who has branded herself as a reformer, is carrying coattails for one of the most corrupt members of Congress. Nevertheless, having turned our collective gaze toward Alaska politics, I think we can perhaps better understand how Stevens' success in bringing pork to Alaska --though it makes him an object of ridicule elsewhere--is fairly popular with the natives. Democratic challenger Mark Begich remains ahead in all polling and is still the favorite, but with the Obama campaign in the process of pulling its resources out of the state, the situation there is much more tenuous.

Palin--or the renewed enthusiasm among GOP base voters that she is associated with--has also pushed some second- and third-tier races in red states back toward the Republicans. These include Idaho, Kentucky, and Georgia, where Republican leads have expanded, perhaps to the point where the races are out of reach. Nor have the Democrats been able to gain any traction in Maine, where Susan Collins' approval ratings remain sky-high.

The Democrats still retain one fairly clear path to 60 seats, assuming that Joe Lieberman and Bernie Sanders are counted with the majority. (I think, by the way, that there has been too much attention given to the party label that Joe Lieberman will choose to affix himself with. He is likely to stand with the Democrats on cloture votes related to domestic policy, which is why the 60 seat number is salient in the first place). This path would involve flipping Virginia, New Mexico and New Hampshire--all of which remain near locks for the Democrats--along with Colorado, Alaska, Minnesota, Oregon, North Carolina, and Mississippi/B.

It's that Mississippi special election race that has yet to really come together for the Democrats, as Republican Roger Wicker has inched upward in the polling since the summer, when the race was closer to a dead heat. But it remains by far the best opportunity the Democrats have to acquire a 60th seat, a fact which will make some coastal Democrats unhappy, since Ronnie Musgrove would probably be more conservative than several Republican members of Congress.

The Democrats could also try and put another race into play. The Scott Kleeb people insist that Nebraska will tighten as their candidate's name recognition improves, and the Democrats also field a compelling candidate in the form of Andrew Rice in Oklahoma. But time is running fairly short, and either race--as well as something like Kentucky or Texas--will probably require at least one fairly significant gaffe from the Republican opponent. On the flip side, the Republicans have yet to make a good race of Louisiana. New Jersey, where an array of recent polling has Dick Zimmer down in the high single digits, might make for the more interesting sleeper race.

 

[Irvine511]

I agree. It was over the top. But there were some elements of truth in it though.

that was all it was meant to be.

i do think, however, that if Obama had a pregnant teenage daughter with a thuggish boyfriend, it would be quite a different conversation.

 

[Utoo]

What was Barack Obama's response to 10 town hall meetings over the summer with John McCain?

Not the same. The top the ticket gets multiple appearances with each other. The VPs get one---and they're cutting that one off at the knees.

As for the town hall crap, the guy turned down 10 town halls, in which you get to say the same things over and over 10 times, for 3 debates--saying the same things over and over only three times. Moreover, can you imagine how much crap would have to go into planning 10 town halls? Which cities/towns do you have them in---yours, ours, ones that are 2/3 yours, etc.? Who gets tickets--yours, ours, third-party distribution with who knows what kind of bias? Who gets to ask questions? How do you ensure that an event like that, with two distinct parties on stage and in the crowd, doesn't turn into a shouting match between sides? It's a lot easier for one guy to fill a hall with his own supporters and answer some of their questions. And times have changed since it was done decades ago---whatever simplicity and civility were there then are much more difficult to find now.

Most important of all----Why should Obama do this just because McCain wants him to? Why submit yourself to an arena that your opponent has practiced in for years? It's like Obama asking McCain to have a speech-off. Have an applause-o-meter and see which speech the people like best.

 

[deep]

that was all it was meant to be.

i do think, however, that if Obama had a pregnant teenage daughter with a thuggish boyfriend, it would be quite a different conversation.

Who has this?

 

[anitram]

Obama agreed to the 3 debates, which has been the standard for quite some time. In fact, I do think that Clinton debated Dole maybe only twice.

10 town halls is completely UNPRECEDENTED and McCain wanted to do it because he knew he'd get free publicity which he needs given the fact that everybody thinks he's a boring 200-year-old turd blossom and nobody wants to actually listen to him live, nevermind that he can't compete with respect to fundraising.

Obama does not need to bend over when McCain demands something that's never been done before, that benefits only him and then on top of it say "thank you, can I have some more?"

 

[Night & Day]

a forward i got today:

 

[yolland]

Who has this?

It's a question of how family situations are caricatured in the public realm and what kinds of staying power certain caricatures have relative to others.

 

[deep]

I am sorry,
but what you just wrote doesn't really address the issue of any thug-like behavior.

Does this young man have an arrest record?
Has he been charged with some beatings or even accused?

Perhaps some vandalism? School property destruction?

Perhaps some break-ins or robberies?

Some kind of juvenile record surely exist,
for everyone to be giving the thumbs up on this.

I am just wondering why people I consider rational thinkers are agreeing with this characterization.

Have I missed something?

 

[yolland]

White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messes with you, you'll "kick their fuckin' ass," and talk about how you like to "shoot shit" for fun, and still be viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

Now where does the author call him a thug?

 

[deep]

Where did I say anyone called him a thug ?




the author did imply that viewing him as a thug should be considered.

and several posters seemed to agree

( I really don't want to go back to what individual posters have written,
we all know -that just leads to a pissing contest )

 

[yolland]

No, the author implied that if he were black than caricaturing him as a thug would "be considered."

 

[deep]

No, the author implied that if he were black than caricaturing him as a thug would "be considered."

based on what ?