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Old 09-21-2008, 03:33 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
based on what ?
His review of the long history of black presidential and vice-presidential candidates and how their pregnant teenagers' boyfriends were portrayed in the media? Is that the evidential standard you're looking for?
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:37 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by yolland View Post
No, the author implied that if he were black than caricaturing him as a thug would "be considered."
Exactly.

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Originally Posted by deep View Post
based on what ?
Ah, deep, you're 50 years old and live in the US. We know you aren't so naive or unaware that you would believe what yolland wrote (quoted above) isn't accurate.
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:57 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
His review of the long history of black presidential and vice-presidential candidates and how their pregnant teenagers' boyfriends were portrayed in the media? Is that the evidential standard you're looking for?

I think the stats are something like 30-40 percent of all girls in the U S get pregnant before the age of 20.

Two high-school kids get pregnant and the families stand behind them,
they plan on getting married and the kids come from stable homes with support.

Why should anyone be implying they should be considered thugs
for something as trivial as a myspace posting?
If they were black with the same circumstances would anyone be labeling them?

I don't recall anyone exploiting the fact the Obama's mama was an unwed teenager like Bristol, when she conceived Obama.


and I don't think anyone gave Britney's little sister a pass because she was white.


Call me crazy, but I think Bristol's kid will have a typical up-bringing like many of us posting on this board.

I can't say the same for the Spears' kids,
I am hoping things do work out for them. Afterall, those Spears' babies are white.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:26 PM   #94
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Obama himself did cite that in Palin's defense and in protest of all the media coverage. But Obama's mother wasn't black, and in any case voters who tend to respond to the 'if-you-can't-manage-your-family-then-how-can-you-manage-the-country' schtick are more concerned with the 'sins' of the candidate's kids than with those of his or her parents.
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Two high-school kids get pregnant and the families stand behind them,
they plan on getting married the kids come from sable homes with support.

I don't think anyone would be implying they should be considered thugs for something as trivial as a myspace posting.
Even if they were black.
And I disagree pretty strongly with you. Would the entire electorate buy into such suggestions--no, of course not. But take a look at the results of the poll MrsS posted yesterday: significant numbers of white people, who happen to comprise the majority of voters in this country, are more primed to perceive various moral weaknesses in black people than they are in white people, and this is one of them. Thus those kinds of insinuations have more staying power when aimed at black people--more ability to plant a seed of doubt and keep it alive in (swing) voters' minds.
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and I don't think anyone gave Britney's little sister a pass because she was white.
Are Britney's parents on the presidential ticket?

When the 'Sarah Palin's high-school kid PREGNANT!!!!' story first broke, there were some blogs, and even more so reader comments, floating around out there sporting a noticeably ugly undertone of "Buncha white trash rednecks. Figures!" And doubtless there are still some muttering that to themselves. But white people are a majority in this country, so anyone trying to wield that stereotype isn't going to get very far when their target is 'respectable' people like those on a presidential ticket. Britney Spears and her family are in an altogether different category--hell yeah, let's titillate ourselves by first building her up into an impossible All-American Girl icon (why can't I be like that!), then enjoy tearing her apart when the inevitable downfall occurs (I knew all along she was just another redneck tramp!).
Quote:
Call me crazy, but I think Bristol's kid will have a typical up-bringing like many of us posting on this board.
Quite possibly, and I never suggested otherwise, but that's beside the point.

And assuming they're 'doing all the right things' by getting married and raising the kid themselves is just as unwarranted (yet politically convenient) as assuming 'this is where a lack of comprehensive sex ed gets you.' Unless you personally know the teenagers in question, you're not in a position to know whether this is likely the best thing for them and their baby or not.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:24 PM   #95
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Not the same. The top the ticket gets multiple appearances with each other. The VPs get one---and they're cutting that one off at the knees.
Since Barack Obama is the "Change Candidate", I thought he wouldn't mind mixing things up a bit.



Quote:
As for the town hall crap, the guy turned down 10 town halls, in which you get to say the same things over and over 10 times, for 3 debates--saying the same things over and over only three times. Moreover, can you imagine how much crap would have to go into planning 10 town halls?
The whole point of a town hall meeting is for it to be random, no script at all, talk about anything. McCain does not mind doing that, but Obama has a problem with it for some reason.


Quote:
Which cities/towns do you have them in---yours, ours, ones that are 2/3 yours, etc.? Who gets tickets--yours, ours, third-party distribution with who knows what kind of bias? Who gets to ask questions?
Keep it random. Sometimes it might be a McCain crowd, sometimes it might be an Obama crowd, sometimes it might be a mix.

Quote:
How do you ensure that an event like that, with two distinct parties on stage and in the crowd, doesn't turn into a shouting match between sides?
The whole point of the town hall meeting is to take questions from anyone and discuss anything that is on anyones mind. Its the opposite of the traditional campaign where both sides attempt to control all the factors.

Quote:
Most important of all----Why should Obama do this just because McCain wants him to? Why submit yourself to an arena that your opponent has practiced in for years? It's like Obama asking McCain to have a speech-off. Have an applause-o-meter and see which speech the people like best.
It was just an idea to do something different. I'm surprised to see the "change candidate" stick to tradition on this one.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:30 PM   #96
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Obama agreed to the 3 debates, which has been the standard for quite some time. In fact, I do think that Clinton debated Dole maybe only twice.
But isn't Obama the "CHANGE" candidate? I thought he would jump at the idea.



Quote:
10 town halls is completely UNPRECEDENTED and McCain wanted to do it because he knew he'd get free publicity which he needs given the fact that everybody thinks he's a boring 200-year-old turd blossom and nobody wants to actually listen to him live, nevermind that he can't compete with respect to fundraising.
If everyone thinks that McCain is a "boring 200 year old turd blossom and nobody wants to actually listen to him live", then 10 town halls should benefit Obama.


Quote:
Obama does not need to bend over when McCain demands something that's never been done before, that benefits only him and then on top of it say "thank you, can I have some more?"
I thought the candidate of "Change" would be interested in doing something that has never been done before.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:56 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
The whole point of the town hall meeting is to take questions from anyone and discuss anything that is on anyones mind. Its the opposite of the traditional campaign where both sides attempt to control all the factors.

McCain's arrogant dismissal of Ron Paul's points during the Republican candidates' debate prove that he has no real interest in listening to alternative points of view - even from within his own party.
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Old 09-21-2008, 06:00 PM   #98
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I thought the candidate of "Change" would be interested in doing something that has never been done before.
Don't worry, that will come in about 6 weeks.
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Old 09-21-2008, 06:15 PM   #99
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McCain's arrogant dismissal of Ron Paul's points during the Republican candidates' debate prove that he has no real interest in listening to alternative points of view - even from within his own party.

Once Ron Paul realizes that the year is 2008 and not 1808, I'm sure McCain will be more willing to listen.
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Old 09-21-2008, 06:21 PM   #100
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Don't worry, that will come in about 6 weeks.
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Old 09-21-2008, 06:36 PM   #101
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Once Ron Paul realizes that the year is 2008 and not 1808, I'm sure McCain will be more willing to listen.
What justifies the second amendment in your mind?
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Old 09-21-2008, 06:41 PM   #102
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Once Ron Paul realizes that the year is 2008 and not 1808, I'm sure McCain will be more willing to listen.
Ron Paul, as a true conservative, realises that tried and tested mechanisms for organising peaceful, successful societies should not be thrown aside for the sake of mere temporary trends towards neo-conservatism, socialism, interventionism and all the other accursed -isms.
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:15 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by yolland View Post
Now where does the author call him a thug?


Levi referred to himself as a "fucking redneck" in his Facebook profile.
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:15 PM   #104
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Gotta spread this stuff around so that folks don't buy into the crap. CNN's jumping in on the "check" stuff:

Quote:
Fact Check: Did Obama vote 94 times for higher taxes?
Posted: 05:30 PM ET

From CNN's Josh Levs
Did Obama vote to raise taxes more than 90 times?
Did Obama vote to raise taxes more than 90 times?

The statement:

"He said he won't raise taxes for most people, but he's voted 94 times in his short Senate career for tax increases and against tax cuts."
-Sen. John McCain, at a campaign stop in Green Bay, Wisconsin, Friday Sept. 19, 2008

Check out the facts after the jump!



The facts:
The effort to convince voters that Sen. Barack Obama would support higher taxes is a central part of Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign. McCain and the Republican National Committee have repeatedly cited 94 alleged votes by Obama to bolster their argument.

Factcheck.org, a non-partisan project of the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Public Policy Center, pieced through records to determine just what these 94 votes were. Key findings:

-23 were against proposed tax cuts
-7 were "for measures that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on a relative few, either corporations or affluent individuals"
-11 were to increase taxes on people making more than $1 million a year, to help fund programs such as Head Start, school nutrition, or veterans' health care
-53 were votes on budget resolutions or amendments that "could not have resulted by themselves in raising taxes," though many "were clear statements of approval for increased taxes"
- The total includes multiple votes on the same measures

Annenberg says a close look at the record reveals that Obama has "voted consistently to restore higher tax rates on upper-income taxpayers but not on middle- or low-income workers."

Verdict:
Misleading. McCain's summary ignores the fact that some of the votes were for measures to lower taxes for many Americans, while increasing them for a much smaller number of taxpayers. A nonpartisan examination also finds that the 94 total includes multiple votes on the same measures and budget votes that would not directly lead to higher taxes.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:06 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Levi referred to himself as a "fucking redneck" in his Facebook profile.
Yeah, I know that, but he's a teenage boy of prime macho-posturing age, and I'm pretty sure Tim Wise recognizes that too. My point (to deep) was that Wise was suggesting that a black teenage father saying comparable things wouldn't get as much of a 'boys-will-be-boys' pass from the public, as Levi Johnston did. I don't think Wise, himself, was suggesting that Johnston SHOULD be deemed a thug.
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