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Old 09-23-2008, 05:25 PM   #166
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:26 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
firstly, i didn't become a regular poster until late 2004.

but as Yolland has pointed out, all the Republicans knew what it was in the Gibson moderated debate.

*everyone* knew that it was about preemptive war. it went along with Cheney's well known The One Percent Doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

but perhaps it's elitist to know things.
If the question was Cheney's One per cent Doctrine
I would have know what that meant.

but the Bush Doctrine can mean different things,* so Palin's response was reasonable, wanting a clarification
and the moderator looked like an ass trying to play "gotcha"

* from wiki
Quote:
The Bush Doctrine is a phrase used to describe various related foreign policy principles of United States president George W. Bush, created in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks. The phrase initially described the policy that the United States had the right to treat countries that harbor or give aid to terrorist groups as terrorists themselves, which was used to justify the invasion of Afghanistan
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:28 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
but the Bush Doctrine can mean different things
and yet:

Quote:
as Yolland has pointed out, all the Republicans knew what it was in the Gibson moderated debate.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:31 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
If the question was Cheney's One per cent Doctrine
I would have know what that meant.

but the Bush Doctrine can mean different things,* so Palin's response was reasonable, wanting a clarification
and the moderator looked like an ass trying to play "gotcha"

* from wiki

Here's the full quote:
Quote:
The Bush Doctrine is a phrase used to describe various related foreign policy principles of United States president George W. Bush, created in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks. The phrase initially described the policy that the United States had the right to treat countries that harbor or give aid to terrorist groups as terrorists themselves, which was used to justify the invasion of Afghanistan.[1] Later it came to include additional elements, including the controversial policy of preventive war, which held that the United States should depose foreign regimes that represented a potential or perceived threat to the security of the United States, even if that threat was not immediate (used to justify the invasion of Iraq); a policy of supporting democracy around the world, especially in the Middle East, as a strategy for combating the spread of terrorism; and a willingness to pursue U.S. military interests in a unilateral way.[2][3][4] Some of these policies were codified in a National Security Council text entitled the National Security Strategy of the United States published on September 20, 2002.[5]

Indeed, it has morphed over time. But it has been a common term, central to the philosophy of this administration. Look at the references on that very same Wikipedia page to see----several newspaper articles, NYT editorials, magazine articles & books using the very term "Bush Doctrine."

More importantly--the meaning of the term has morphed to include all of its various aspects, not into a term that excludes its previous meanings.

Come on. Stop playing games. If one wants to run for the second highest office in the country, one should know the central tenets of the previous administration's philosophy, especially if it's your own party.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:33 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
If one wants to run for the second highest office in the country, one should know the central tenets of the previous administration's philosophy, especially if it's your own party.



elitist.







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Old 09-23-2008, 05:34 PM   #171
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"...his world view?" are not the words of someone seeking a clarification, they're the words of someone who simply doesn't recognize the phrase. If you want to give her credit simply for knowing the common stalling tactic of attempting to fish a partial answer out of the questioner when you don't know the answer ("In what respect?"), that's your prerogative.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:34 PM   #172
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With all due respect, WE are not Governors who didn't even BLINK before stating boldly that we are READY to be vice president (and president by the same logic).

Since when is WIDE USAGE of a term a defence for people who specialize in a field? Should I state that because nobody here may be familiar with the parens patriae definition, I shouldn't either while accepting a position on SCOTUS?

Honestly deep, this is one of the dumber arguments I've heard here in a while.

they say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

well, this one just might be in the "bias of the reader"


with the respect that is warranted

Biden's flub on something that is taught to grade school children, that the depression began in 1929 on Hoover's watch, is much more of a gaff than wanting a clarification to a vague term from an interviewer.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:39 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
Biden's flub on something that is taught to grade school children, that the depression began in 1929 on Hoover's watch, is much more of a gaff than wanting a clarification to a vague term from an interviewer.

i couldn't disagree more.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:41 PM   #174
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The McCain campaign gave in and agreed to let a CNN producer into the UN meetings.

The New York Times adds that reporters were let in for the preliminary part of Palin's meeting with Afghan President Hamid Karzai. Here's what they got:

When Gov. Sarah Palin sat down with President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan on Tuesday afternoon, the polite preliminaries to their conversation centered around children, as Mr. Karzai spoke of the birth of his first child last year.

"What is his name?" Ms. Palin was heard to ask, as she met with Mr. Karzai in the suite of a midtown hotel, according to a pool report.

"Mirwais," Mr. Karzai replied. "Mirwais, which means, 'The Light of the House.'"

"Oh nice," Palin responded.

"He is the only one we have," Mr. Karzai said.

Then the pool of journalists was escorted out, and the meeting began.

The pool was allowed in for a whopping 29 seconds.
You couldn't write this if you tried.

CBS was sexist and disrespectful, daring to ask a question, so now they have to go sit in the corner:

Quote:
Television networks, including CBS News maintain a policy that if they are prevented from having an editorial presence at an event, they will not allow cameras to shoot it.

The McCain/Palin campaign's effort to stifle editorial coverage of the candidate's meetings with world leaders comes a week after CBS News asked Palin an impromptu question about the AIG bailout, while Palin made an off-the-record stop at a Cleveland diner.

After the Cleveland event, a Palin staffer told CBS News that questions "weren't allowed."

In Orlando on Sunday, Palin had another off-the-record stop at an ice cream shop, but the pool producer who was assigned to be in Palin's motorcade was not notified when the candidate departed to get ice cream, and so there was no editorial presence at the event.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:44 PM   #175
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You couldn't write this if you tried.


you could. in Russia!

please, someone. defend this behavior. defense having a candidate that will not take questions from what is supposed to be a free press.

i have to know why this behavior isn't objectionable to you.

please. it's making me crazy.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:46 PM   #176
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In socialist Germany, under our dear leader Putin, we had to discuss the term "Bush Doctrine" in one of our exams in civics.


As yolland said, she didn't recognize the term as something with several meanings where she wanted clarification, she didn't recognize the term at all. It doesn't matter what terms you, or anyone else here, is familiar with or not, but what terms Palin is familar with; or not.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:46 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
Here's the full quote:



Indeed, it has morphed over time. But it has been a common term, central to the philosophy of this administration. Look at the references on that very same Wikipedia page to see----several newspaper articles, NYT editorials, magazine articles & books using the very term "Bush Doctrine."

More importantly--the meaning of the term has morphed to include all of its various aspects, not into a term that excludes its previous meanings.

Come on. Stop playing games. If one wants to run for the second highest office in the country, one should know the central tenets of the previous administration's philosophy, especially if it's your own party.

this is from your example


The Bush Doctrine is a phrase used to describe various related foreign policy principles of United States president George W. Bush, created in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks.

1. the United States had the right to treat countries that harbor or give aid to terrorist groups as terrorists themselves, which was used to justify the invasion of Afghanistan.

2. the policy of preventive war, which held that the United States should depose foreign regimes that represented a potential or perceived threat to the security of the United States, even if that threat was not immediate

3. a policy of supporting democracy around the world, especially in the Middle East, as a strategy for combating the spread of terrorism

4. a willingness to pursue U.S. military interests in a unilateral way.




So is everyone against all 4 of these aspects of The Bush Doctrine ?


Now that we have a definition?

I think I am did and would support at least 2 of the 4?

perhaps more under the right circumstances.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:49 PM   #178
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#2 was the most discussed in the news media in 2002/3. by far. that's what i would take the meaning of the Bush Doctrine to be, as would all the presidential candidates who have even a modest interest in foreign affairs.

remember the whole debate about a "grave and gathering danger" and "imminent threats" in regards to the WMD lies?
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:49 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post

it's making me crazy.

QFT

jk
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:51 PM   #180
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YouTube - Biden: Obama ad attacking McCain "Terrible"

Thank you Mr. Biden.
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