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Old 04-24-2008, 10:38 PM   #721
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I do really feel bad for both Obama and Hillary supporters


this nomination will not be decided by all the millions of people that have invested their hearts and time into these campaigns

or the people that have participated in the democratic process by standing in lines (sometimes for hours?) and voted!


it will be determined by a bunch of worthless, political hacks
and 50% of the public will rightfully believe it is not fair
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:57 AM   #722
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I have to admit that this primary system is really bizarre to me. It's a huge, huge waste of money and that in itself is a great reason to get rid of it. It also basically completely marginalizes the current administration something like a year and a half before the next election (in this case, not a bad thing, actually). The caucuses in particular are hilarious. I happened to be visiting my parents for Christmas when the Iowa caucuses were on. We're watching CNN and there is the cameraman, in somebody's living room, with people sitting in a mess in chairs, some of them eating scones or muffins or whatever it was as they were being counted. My parents, who lived behind the Iron Curtain, looked at me and were like "are these people for real??" You wouldn't even see that in a third world country with a corrupt system. The superdelegates are just weird.

So, yes, I would hope that this would be revised. But at the same time, Hillary's self-serving efforts to revise a race in the middle of it as she sees fit (of course benefitting only her and nobody else), is really, really lame. This is the system she knew she was participating in; she chose to not make any kind of effort that I could see in almost all of the caucus states. That makes her campaign inept, and she should not be rewarded for her stupidity in return.

Who was it that said that Hillary is what happens when a person has ambition and nothing else in life? I think it is probably the most succinct description of her that I have seen/heard.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:34 AM   #723
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(AP)

NEW ORLEANS — Republican Sen. John McCain, campaigning through poverty-stricken cities and towns, said Wednesday he opposes a Senate bill that seeks equal pay for women because it would lead to more lawsuits.

Senate Republicans killed the bill Wednesday night on a 56-42 vote that denied the measure the 60 votes needed to advance it to full debate and a vote. Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., had delayed the vote to give McCain's Democratic rivals, Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, time to return to Washington to support the measure, which would make it easier for women to sue their employers for pay discrimination.

McCain skipped the vote to campaign in New Orleans.

"I am all in favor of pay equity for women, but this kind of legislation, as is typical of what's being proposed by my friends on the other side of the aisle, opens us up to lawsuits for all kinds of problems," the expected GOP presidential nominee told reporters. "This is government playing a much, much greater role in the business of a private enterprise system."

The bill sought to counteract a Supreme Court decision limiting how long workers can wait before suing for pay discrimination.

It is named for Lilly Ledbetter, a supervisor at the Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.'s plant in Gadsden, Ala., who sued for pay discrimination just before retiring after a 19-year career there. By the time she retired, Ledbetter made $6,500 less than the lowest-paid male supervisor and claimed earlier decisions by supervisors kept her from making more.

The Supreme Court voted 5-4 last year to throw out her complaint, saying she had waited too long to sue.

Democrats criticized McCain for opposing the bill.

"Senator McCain has yet again fallen in line with President Bush while middle-class families are falling by the wayside," Clinton said in a statement following the vote. "Women are earning less, but Senator McCain is offering more of the same."

Democratic National Committee spokeswoman Karen Finney said: "At a time when American families are struggling to keep their homes and jobs while paying more for everything from gasoline to groceries, how on Earth would anyone who thinks they can lead our country also think it's acceptable to oppose equal pay for America's mothers, wives and daughters?"

McCain stated his opposition to the bill as he campaigned in rural eastern Kentucky, where poverty is worse among women than men. The Arizona senator said he was familiar with the disparity but that there are better ways to help women find better paying jobs.

"They need the education and training, particularly since more and more women are heads of their households, as much or more than anybody else," McCain said. "And it's hard for them to leave their families when they don't have somebody to take care of them.

"It's a vicious cycle that's affecting women, particularly in a part of the country like this, where mining is the mainstay; traditionally, women have not gone into that line of work, to say the least," he said.

McCain chose to visit the tiny hamlet of Inez, Ky., because it is where President Lyndon B. Johnson declared war on poverty. But McCain said Johnson's poverty programs had failed.

"I wouldn't be back here today if government had fulfilled the promise that Lyndon Johnson made 44 years ago," he said.

In recent weeks, McCain has proposed a series of tax breaks for corporations, doubling the dependent child tax exemption, government-backed refinancing for struggling homeowners and a summer holiday from gas taxes. He proposed another new program Wednesday: a tax write-off for companies that provide high-speed Internet access for underserved, low-income communities.
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:37 AM   #724
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NY Times

April 24, 2008

Black Leader in House Denounces Bill Clinton’s Remarks

By Mark Leibovich

The third-ranking Democrat in the House of Representatives and one of the country’s most influential African-American leaders sharply criticized former President Bill Clinton this afternoon for what he called Mr. Clinton’s “bizarre” conduct during the Democratic primary campaign.

Representative James E. Clyburn, an undeclared superdelegate from South Carolina who is the Democratic whip in the House, said that “black people are incensed over all of this,” referring to statements that Mr. Clinton had made in the course of the heated race between his wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, and Senator Barack Obama.

Mr. Clinton was widely criticized by black leaders after he equated the eventual victory of Mr. Obama in South Carolina in January to that of the Rev. Jesse Jackson in 1988 – a parallel that many took as an attempt to diminish Mr. Obama’s success in the campaign. In a radio interview in Philadelphia on Monday, Mr. Clinton defended his remarks and said the Obama campaign had “played the race card on me” by making an issue of those comments.

In an interview with The New York Times late Thursday, Mr. Clyburn said Mr. Clinton’s conduct in this campaign had caused what might be an irreparable breach between Mr. Clinton and an African-American constituency that once revered him. “When he was going through his impeachment problems, it was the black community that bellied up to the bar,” Mr. Clyburn said. “I think black folks feel strongly that that this is a strange way for President Clinton to show his appreciation.”

Mr. Clyburn added that there appeared to be an almost “unanimous” view among African-Americans that Mr. and Mrs. Clinton were “committed to doing everything they possibly can to damage Obama to a point that he could never win.”

Mr. Clyburn was heavily courted by both campaigns before South Carolina’s primary in January. But he stayed neutral, and continues to, vowing that he would not say or do anything that might influence the outcome of the race. He said he remains officially uncommitted as a superdelegate and has no immediate plans to endorse either candidate.

At one point before the South Carolina primary, Mr. Clyburn publicly urged Mr. Clinton to “chill a little bit.”

Asked Thursday whether the former president heeded his advice, Mr. Clyburn said “Yeah, for three or four weeks or so. Or maybe three or four days.”

A Clinton campaign spokesman, Jay Carson, declined to specifically address Mr. Clyburn’s statements.

“Look, President Clinton has an impeccable record on race, civil rights and issues that matter to the African-American community, the strongest of any president in our time,” Mr. Carson said. He added that in making his radio remarks on Monday, the former president was “simply reacting to a deeply offensive accusation that runs counter to principles he’s held and worked for his entire life.”
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Old 04-26-2008, 05:57 AM   #725
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NY Times

Op-Ed Columnist
McCain’s Compassion Tour

By GAIL COLLINS
Published: April 26, 2008


John McCain — this is the guy, you may remember, who’s going to be the Republican presidential nominee — has been visiting the poor lately. Appalachia, New Orleans, Rust Belt factory towns. This is a good thing, and we applaud his efforts to show compassion and interest in people for whom his actual policies are of no use whatsoever.

McCain's special It’s Time for Action Tour was in the impoverished Kentucky town of Inez on Wednesday, so he was unable to make it to Washington to vote on the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. This is the bill that would restore workers’ ability to go to court in cases of pay discrimination.

But McCain was not ducking the issue. After all, this is a man who told the folks in Youngstown, Ohio — where most of the working single mothers cannot make it above the poverty line — that the answer to their problems is larger tax deductions. He is fearless when it comes to delivering unpleasant news to people who are probably not going to vote for him anyway.

So McCain made it clear that if he had been in Washington, he would have voted no because the bill “opens us up for lawsuits, for all kinds of problems and difficulties.”

How much straighter can talk get? True, this is pretty much like saying that you’re voting against the federal budget because it involves spending. Still, there is no denying that a bill making it possible for people who have been discriminated against to go to court for redress would open somebody up to the possibility of a lawsuit.

Lilly Ledbetter was a supervisor at a Goodyear Tire plant in Gadsden, Ala., for almost 20 years — the only woman who ever managed to stick it out in what was not exactly a female-friendly environment. When she was near retirement, she got an anonymous letter listing the salaries of the men who held the same job. While she was making $3,727 a month, the lowest paid man, with far less seniority, was getting $4,286.

“I was just emotionally let down when I saw the difference,” she said on Friday.

The company declined Ledbetter’s offer to settle for the difference between her earnings and that lowest-paid man’s — about $60,000. A jury awarded her $223,776 in back pay and more than $3 million in punitive damages.

Goodyear appealed, and the case arrived at the Supreme Court just as President Bush’s new appointees were settling in. The court ruled 5-to-4 against Ledbetter, saying that she should have filed her suit within 180 days of receiving her first paycheck in which Goodyear discriminated against her.

The fact that workers generally have no idea what other people are making when they start a job did not concern the court nearly as much as what Justice Samuel Alito, writing for the majority, called “the burden of defending claims arising from employment decisions that are long past.” In other words, pay discrimination is illegal unless it goes on for more than six months.

Ledbetter did not even get her back pay. And Goodyear billed her $3,165 for court-related costs.

The bill being voted on this week would have made it clear that every time a woman like Ledbetter got a check that was lower than those of the men doing the same job, it triggered a new 180-day deadline. That was the status quo before Alito and John Roberts arrived on the scene. But the sponsors needed 60 votes, and they only got 56. “I would never have believed this in the United States of America,” said Ledbetter, 70, who watched from the Senate gallery.

McCain’s vote wouldn’t have made any difference. But his reaction does suggest that on his list of presidential priorities, the problems of working women come in somewhere behind the rising price of after-dinner mints.

Having delivered his objections to the Ledbetter bill this week, McCain went on to tell reporters that what women really need is “education and training, particularly since more and more women are heads of their households, as much or more than anybody else. And it’s hard for them to leave their families when they don’t have somebody to take care of them.”

Maybe George Bush isn’t all that incoherent after all.

Was McCain saying that it’s less important to give working women the right to sue for equal pay than to give them help taking care of their families? There have been many attempts to expand the Family and Medical Leave Act to protect more workers who need to stay home to take care of a sick kid or an ailing parent. “We’ve never gotten his support on any of that agenda,” said Debra Ness, the president of the National Partnership for Women and Families.

We also have yet to hear a McCain policy address on how working mothers are supposed to find quality child care. If it comes, I suspect the women trying to support their kids on $20,000 a year are going to learn they’re in line for some whopping big income-tax deductions.

Let them eat dinner mints.
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:40 AM   #726
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Don't vote for Sen Clinton though if Sen Obama is the nominee-vote for McCain. Especially if you're female
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:52 AM   #727
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When that bitch Hillary gets slapped out of the race it is going to be important to show how much republicans hate women.
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Old 04-26-2008, 10:12 AM   #728
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Oh, as a party, Republicans don't hate women. They just dismiss them. The Democrats pander better to women.

Just providing a public service announcement to an important voting bloc......Danger, Will Robinson..
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Old 04-26-2008, 03:30 PM   #729
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SurveyUSA's 50-state polls released in March showed that electoral votes would go to different parties in 15 states depending on whether McCain was pitted against Clinton or Obama. And it is electoral votes that determine who will be president.

There are states where Obama runs stronger than Clinton. They include most of the West -- notably Colorado, a state Democrats lost in 2000 and 2004 but which has trended their way since. They include states in the Upper Midwest, like Minnesota, and New England states like Connecticut and New Hampshire, which Democrats won in 2004 but where Clinton seems weak.

But Clinton seems to run stronger than Obama in the industrial (or formerly industrial) belt, running west from New Jersey through Pennsylvania and Ohio to Michigan and Missouri. Obama's weakness among white working-class voters in the primaries here suggests he is poorly positioned to win votes he will need to carry these states in November. This is not a minor problem -- we're talking about 84 electoral votes.

Obama has also fared poorly among Latino and Jewish voters in every primary held so far. This is of consequence most notably in Florida, which has 27 electoral votes. In 2000, Al Gore won 67 percent of the vote in Broward County and 62 percent in Palm Beach County -- both have large Jewish populations. In this year's Florida primary, Obama lost those counties to Clinton by 57 percent to 33 percent and 61 percent to 27 percent. No Democrat can carry Florida without big margins in Broward and Palm Beach.

Obama's weakness among Latinos and Jews could conceivably put California's 55 electoral votes in play. Los Angeles County delivered an 831,000 vote plurality for John Kerry in 2004. Most of that plurality came from areas with large numbers of Latinos and Jews.

Barack Obama's 20-year association with his "spiritual mentor," the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, his "friendly" relationship will unrepentant Weather Underground bomber William Ayers and his remark that "bitter" small-town Pennsylvanians "cling to guns and religion" do not help him with any of these key voting groups. And his discomfort, evident in the Pennsylvania debate, when he is greeted with anything but adulation does not augur well for his ability to stand firm and show a sense of command in the face of the stringent criticism he is bound to receive as the Democratic nominee.

Hillary Clinton's current and tenuous popular vote lead may not persuade Democratic super-delegates to reject the candidate who has, after all, won more delegates in primaries and caucuses. But it may prompt some to think hard about Electoral College arithmetic.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...linton_an.html
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:20 PM   #730
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US News & World Report

A Research 2000 poll of 600 likely Indiana voters taken April 21-24 for the South Bend Tribune shows Sen. Barack Obama leading Sen. Hillary Clinton 48%-47%.

A Selzer & Co poll of likely Indiana voters taken April 20-23 for the Indianapolis Star/WTHR-TV shows Obama leading Clinton 41%-38%. In general election matchups, this poll shows Obama leads McCain 49%-41%, while Clinton and McCain are tied at 46% apiece.
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:46 PM   #731
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The polls are interesting
after a state votes
we can see if any of them where even close
it seems some are correct sometimes

i do expect Obama to do very well in NC
and if he wins IN, by even 1 or 2 points, which is possible, taking in account proximity to Ill and a decent size youth vote, he could wrap this up

If Hillary wins IN by 4-5 points or more her arguments still remain
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:07 PM   #732
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By "her arguments" you mean the case for counting Florida and Michigan?
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:14 PM   #733
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I mean that she is the candidate that the superdelegates should support because Obama can not win working class blue collar voters, the so-called Reagan democrats.


Florida and Michigan are big problems for Obama, it seems the power brokers may want to seat some kind of watered down delegations reflecting close to a 50/50 split.

That is a huge gift for Obama and does not reflect the will of the people in those states.
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:51 PM   #734
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Originally posted by deep
I mean that she is the candidate that the superdelegates should support because Obama can not win working class blue collar voters, the so-called Reagan democrats.
You mean white working-class blue collar voters--the "close the deal" argument takes the black vote in the general election for granted. The problem with this argument is that it's the expected custom for the superdelegates not to override the pledged delegates. If Clinton should win the nomination through that means, I think there's substantial reason to worry that black voters would stay home by huge margins in November, which would be fatal to any Democrat in the general. It might not happen, but it is a real concern; fretting about Obama's difficulties "closing the deal" with white working-class voters overlooks her difficulties "closing the deal" with black voters.
Quote:
Florida and Michigan are big problems for Obama, it seems the power brokers may want to seat some kind of watered down delegations reflecting close to a 50/50 split.

That is a huge gift for Obama and does not reflect the will of the people in those states.
I predicted a couple months back in here that a 50/50 delegate split was likely for FL and MI, and I still think that's the case. I did disagree with the DNC's decision to strip those states of all their delegates, I think they should've just halved them instead; but, once having made the decision not to count their results, I do think they should stick with that (and any candidate who had a problem with this decision should've spoken up when it was announced back in August, which no one did). In any case, the net delegate gain she'd pick up if their results were counted wouldn't be enough to give her the nomination, unless she wins all the remaining primaries by hefty margins.
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:12 PM   #735
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The whole premise of the Obama campaign was to avoid this black vs. white mentality....to rise above it. Looking at the recent exit polls, it has been anything but that.

The Democratic Party has become the party of the circular firing squad. I'm not sure who's to blame.
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