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Old 04-16-2008, 09:41 PM   #511
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I just turned it on. FLAG PINS!! They're talking about flag pins.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:43 PM   #512
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"Do you believe in the flag?" was the question I think.

I honestly can't imagine any candidate in any other Western country being asked something this stupid and this irrelevant.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:08 PM   #513
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Somebody really needs to start a 'worst gaffe' poll. There have been so many!

Nominations:

Hillary's false story of being shot at in Bosnia, as well as her nonexistent high school soccer career

Obama's preacher's comments

Obama's grandma 'typical white person'

Bill Clinton's racially sensitive remarks in SC

Geraldine Ferraro's comment that Obama was only where he is because he is black

Obama's small town 'bitter' comments

McCain stay in Iraq for 100 years

others please specify...
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:22 PM   #514
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
So I'm watching the debate on ABC when I should be doing other more productive things, but just a comment - the American media is disgraceful. The two moderators (Gibson and Stephanopoulos) are either actually genuinely stupid or just complete hacks which is disappointing. Their questions are actually a stunning example of the contempt that the media has for the general public - to ask idiotic stupidities like what they've been asking is not even befitting a high school newspaper.

Awful, awful, awful. What an utter embarrassment. To have some of the finest educational institutions and journalism schools in the whole world and produce this is astonishing.
Why? Because they asked tough questions? This was the first Dem debate where they were actually challenged, and I thought Obama did awful.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:23 PM   #515
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
Somebody really needs to start a 'worst gaffe' poll. There have been so many!

Nominations:

Hillary's false story of being shot at in Bosnia, as well as her nonexistent high school soccer career

Obama's preacher's comments

Obama's grandma 'typical white person'

Bill Clinton's racially sensitive remarks in SC

Geraldine Ferraro's comment that Obama was only where he is because he is black

Obama's small town 'bitter' comments

McCain stay in Iraq for 100 years

others please specify...
Obama's "punished with a baby."
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:25 PM   #516
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They asked ridiculous questions.

As a young guy in college, your critical thinking skills should have developed enough to recognize that.

But hey, let's discuss flag pins. Of all the pressing issues the country faces, it is only fitting that this was one of the first 5 questions asked. Trade policy, healthcare, environment and educational reforms are for those other suckers.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:29 PM   #517
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
They asked ridiculous questions.

As a young guy in college, your critical thinking skills should have developed enough to recognize that.

But hey, let's discuss flag pins. Of all the pressing issues the country faces, it is only fitting that this was one of the first 5 questions asked. Trade policy, healthcare, environment and educational reforms are for those other suckers.
I think the flag pin is legitimate. After his defense of not needing to wear one to prove his patriotism, I don't think it's a coincidence that one week before Pennsylvania it suddenly re-appears, at the same time that his patriotism is being slightly questioned due to Wright or his "bitter" comments.

To be honest, I didn't watch the whole thing, I was watching the White House dinner. But I did see Gibson ask hard, yes or no followup questions of both candidates, regarding the economy and taxes, for example.

I'm sure they touched on all the issues you mentioned, as well as the flag pin and other "other" stories making news.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:32 PM   #518
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Why the hell do you care who wears flag pins? What is it about Americans that makes this some kind of idiotic make it or break it issue? The woman actually asked him if he believes in the flag! If he were cheekier, he should have told her that no, he doesn't, he believes in Jesus, and so should she. That would have been about as absurd as her question was.

And you're "sure" they touched on "all the issues" I mentioned based on the fact you didn't watch it? They did NOT in fact touch on ANY of the issues I mentioned. Not a single one.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:37 PM   #519
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Why the hell do you care who wears flag pins?
Personally, I don't. Neither of these people are getting my vote, and it has nothing to do with a flag pin. But it's interesting to try to get inside Obama's mind. There must be a reason he just starting wearing one.


Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
And you're "sure" they touched on "all the issues" I mentioned based on the fact you didn't watch it? They did NOT in fact touch on ANY of the issues I mentioned. Not a single one.
Ok, fair enough. Apparently they didn't. Did you really need to hear about healthcare, though? What don't you know about both of their plans by now?

That being said, don't get me wrong- I'm all for talking about issues rather than campaign trail controversies.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:40 PM   #520
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Personally, I don't. Neither of these people are getting my vote, and it has nothing to do with a flag pin. But it's interesting to try to get inside Obama's mind. There must be a reason he just starting wearing one.
Well again, watch the debate. He didn't "just start wearing one" - he explicitly stated that a veteran had come up to him the other day and handed a specific one to him on behalf of an organization he runs and asked him to put it on at the event. He did. He wasn't wearing it after that.

There is something to be said for getting your facts straight.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:46 PM   #521
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
Somebody really needs to start a 'worst gaffe' poll. There have been so many!

Nominations:

Quote:
Hillary's false story of being shot at in Bosnia, as well as her nonexistent high school soccer career [/B]
8/10

I think this is one that Hillary wishes did not happen.

Quote:
Obama's grandma 'typical white person'
[/B]
8/10 Unfortunate he said this.
Until about this point Obama was seen as transcending race. The context that he would talk down his "grandma" rubbed many people the wrong way.

Net score 7/10

Quote:
Obama's preacher's comments
[/B]
1/10
Obama did not say these things
or stand up and shout 'hallelujah!

9/10 His association and many references to Wright make this association costly for Obama with many voters

net score 4/10 It gave Obama the opportunity to give his Race Speech, this speech has been universally received as a great speech


Quote:
Bill Clinton's racially sensitive remarks in SC [/B]
1/10 He really did not make any "racial" remarks

9/10 the remarks were spun as "racial" and it stuck in the press

net effect 8/10 perception is reality


Quote:
Geraldine Ferraro's comment that Obama was only where he is because he is black[/B]
3/10 The remarks, while perhaps correct , were clumsy. and would serve no purpose. Why say it?

7/10 The perception - old white lady makes "bigoted" remark.

net score 6/10


Quote:
Obama's small town 'bitter' comments [/B]
10/10 This is the worst "gaffe" of the campaign. Any argument that "there is some truth" in it is pointless. A candidates only job is to get votes. Why say anything derogatory about any segment of the electorate? Unless you have just bowed out and you don't care if you don't get their votes. A candidate can choose his remarks.
Why don't people in small towns vote for you? Answer, "We need to do a better job of getting our message out."

net score 5/10

this is dissipating, even a bad story has a "life" cycle.
this one will not completely go away but with as much talk about it.
People will get tired of hearing about it.


Quote:
McCain stay in Iraq for 100 years
[/B]
5/10 This quote is the one that McCain's opponents like to quote the most. It may have loss him a couple of "independents". If is kind of funny 100 years.

net score 3/10 Everyone knows McCain is the candidate that supports the Iraq mission. So this is news.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:49 PM   #522
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram

There is something to be said for getting your facts straight.
Yep... It doesn't seem to be a virtue these days.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:55 PM   #523
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Originally posted by deep



but with as much talk about it.
People will get tired of hearing about it.

Well, as everyone has been saying, this is much more of a general election problem for Obama. The left and far-left who he's targeting right now find little if any problem with what he said. In a few months, it'll be back. I think it is a 10/10.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:57 PM   #524
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Obama's "punished with a baby."
Nobody wants their child to be pregnant at sixteen. I hear all walks of life conservative or liberal tell kids, "you are young and have your whole life in front of you, don't ruin it and get pregnant..."
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Old 04-16-2008, 11:00 PM   #525
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Nobody wants their child to be pregnant at sixteen. I hear all walks of life conservative or liberal tell kids, "you are young and have your whole life in front of you, don't ruin it and get pregnant..."
And I agree. And if Obama had said "you are young and have your whole life in front of you, don't ruin it and get pregnant..." it would have been fine. The great orator used a poor choice of words, once again. Not a major election-deciding gaffe, but a gaffe still.
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