US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - The Fifth Installment

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deep said:
He says these little things that are just off.

He said McCain served "his" country.

He should be saying McCain served "our" country.
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Thank goodness we're discussing substantive issues.
 
deep said:



Bill Clinton won W V in 92 by 13% and in 96 by 15%
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I guess in this part of the country it's okay to be the First Black President as long as you're not actually black.
 
Conservatives and right-wingers used that label, that Black Americans put on Bill Clinton, as a negative term to suggest that he was pandering to blacks.

and what was this pandering?


Enforcing voting rights laws.
Supporting Affirmative action.
Appointing more people of color than any other administration.
Supporting Civil Rights laws

these are all things that the Bush Administration has done a 180 on.



A Clarence Thomas or an Armstrong Williams would not be Presidents that would advocate for these things.
They would be Presidents that happened to be born Black.


As for Obama, he is taking his shot now.


If Obama does not win I believe it will have more to do with his experience level than his race.
 
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Both uses of Morrison's 'label' misconstrue what she meant by it anyhow, which had nothing to do with Clinton's policies nor his presumed personal views on race.

from the original article, commenting on coverage of the Lewinsky scandal:
African-American men seemed to understand it right away. Years ago, in the middle of the Whitewater investigation, one heard the first murmurs: white skin notwithstanding, this is our first black President. Blacker than any actual black person who could ever be elected in our children’s lifetime. After all, Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald’s-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas. And when virtually all the African-American Clinton appointees began, one by one, to disappear, when the President’s body, his privacy, his unpoliced sexuality became the focus of the persecution, when he was metaphorically seized and body-searched, who could gainsay these black men who knew whereof they spoke? The message was clear: “No matter how smart you are, how hard you work, how much coin you earn for us, we will put you in your place or put you out of the place you have somehow, albeit with our permission, achieved. You will be fired from your job, sent away in disgrace, and—who knows?—maybe sentenced and jailed to boot. In short, unless you do as we say (i.e., assimilate at once), your expletives belong to us.”

For a large segment of the population who are not African-Americans or members of other minorities, the elusive story left visible tracks: from target sighted to attack, to criminalization, to lynching, and now, in some quarters, to crucifixion. The always and already guilty “perp” is being hunted down not by a prosecutor’s obsessive application of law but by a different kind of pursuer, one who makes new laws out of the shards of those he breaks.
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yolland said:
Both uses of Morrison's 'label' misconstrue what she meant by it anyhow, which had nothing to do with Clinton's policies nor his presumed personal views on race.
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I disagree 100%

"nothing to do with Clinton's policies nor his presumed personal views on race."

If Trent Lott was being prosecuted for having an affair would he be called The First Black Senator from Miss?

I don't recall anyone calling Nixon the First Black President when the Special Prosecutors were after him.

Tom Delay is a good old poor boy from a modest background that made good and fell from grace and was prosecuted

was he a the First Black House Leader?
 
Time Magazine, May 7, 2008
Do you regret referring to Bill Clinton as the first black President?

Toni Morrison: People misunderstood that phrase. I was deploring the way in which President Clinton was being treated, vis-à-vis the sex scandal that was surrounding him. I said he was being treated like a black on the street, already guilty, already a perp. I have no idea what his real instincts are, in terms of race.
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You'd really have to ask Toni Morrison why she doesn't feel DeLay, Nixon or Lott warrant the label. But I'd imagine it has something to do with the nature of their offenses, which at least in the latter two cases caused many in their own party to actively turn on them as well.

JFK was very popular with African-Americans too; why not call him the 'First Black President' instead, since it sounds as if that's how you're wanting to interpret the label?
 
yolland said:
Time Magazine, May 7, 2008

You'd really have to ask Toni Morrison why she doesn't feel DeLay, Nixon or Lott warrant the label. But I'd imagine it has something to do with the nature of their offenses, which at least in the latter two cases caused many in their own party to actively turn on them as well.

JFK was very popular with African-Americans too; why not call him the 'First Black President' instead, since it sounds as if that's how you're wanting to interpret the label?
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Yes,
I have read and heard what Morrison is saying lately,
after she withdrew her endorsement of Hillary and switched it to Obama (political expediency)

JFK was not that popular with Black Americans, LBJ had more of an affinity for their causes.

President Clinton had a genuine relationship with the "black community". If he did not, Morrison would never have even considered that label.
 
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When had Morrison endorsed Hillary? She endorsed Obama back in January.
 
Since Obama is the presumptive nominee and the combined wisdom here is that he will kick McCain's ass in November, I am free to vote my North Appalachian heart with a write-in.
 
maycocksean said:


I guess in this part of the country it's okay to be the First Black President as long as you're not actually black.
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it is the region.

Iowa is likewise 94% white, and Obama won a resounding victory there.
 
Why am I not surprised to see zero criticism in here or in the media of Obama's new religious flier. Apparently Huckabee's subliminal cross was so offensive and out of line, yet Obama is doing nothing wrong. Where's the same level of outrage?
 
2861U2 said:
Why am I not surprised to see zero criticism in here or in the media of Obama's new religious flier. Apparently Huckabee's subliminal cross was so offensive and out of line, yet Obama is doing nothing wrong. Where's the same level of outrage?
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erm, you really, really need to stop manufacturing outrage. there wasn't any in regards to Huckabee's cross. there was the accurate analysis that the cross was fully intentional and meant to underscore Huckabee as the "Christian" candidate, which is evidently compelling to some voters who thinks that Christ votes Republican.
 
2861U2 said:
Why am I not surprised to see zero criticism in here or in the media of Obama's new religious flier. Apparently Huckabee's subliminal cross was so offensive and out of line, yet Obama is doing nothing wrong. Where's the same level of outrage?
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Are you just pretending not to see the difference? :huh:

I guess the straight talk express is running out of steam...
 
Irvine511 said:





erm, you really, really need to stop manufacturing outrage. there wasn't any in regards to Huckabee's cross. there was the accurate analysis that the cross was fully intentional and meant to underscore Huckabee as the "Christian" candidate, which is evidently compelling to some voters who thinks that Christ votes Republican.
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Well we disagree, then. The "cross" in the ad was most certainly unintentional. You still didn't answer my question. Where is the same level of attention over Obama's flier? Why can Obama bring his faith into his campaign when all you guys jumped on Huckabee and Romney for doing the same?
 
2861U2 said:


Well we disagree, then. The "cross" in the ad was most certainly unintentional. You still didn't answer my question. Where is the same level of attention over Obama's flier? Why can Obama bring his faith into his campaign when all you guys jumped on Huckabee and Romney for doing the same?
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the cross was 100% intentional.

and i really don't care. i wasn't "outraged" by it. Huckabee can say that Jesus Christ himself came down and told him to run for office, and it wouldn't outrage me. it would simple confirm my suspicions that he's a deluded simpleton with an uncommon down-home touch.

i don't know where the "same level" attention is over Obama's flier. i haven't even heard of it. i suppose this has to do with the liberal media conspiracy that keeps good Christians down and secretly promotes muslim candidates who are going to surrender to Iran.
 
2861U2 said:


Well we disagree, then. The "cross" in the ad was most certainly unintentional. You still didn't answer my question. Where is the same level of attention over Obama's flier? Why can Obama bring his faith into his campaign when all you guys jumped on Huckabee and Romney for doing the same?
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Well if you're going to continue to play as if you don't see the difference then I'll spell it out for you.

First there was no outrage over Huckabee's "cross". Intentional or not, I don't care, but he did make the same ad for churches but with a "war on christmas" rant.

Huckabee sold himself as the "if you are Christian you need to vote for me" president, Obama is not doing that. Obama is trying to dispell the stupid rumor of him being Muslim, which is pretty damn sad. Obama has never and will never say the constitution needs to be more like the Bible.

One wants a theocracy the other doesn't. See the difference?
 
I mean making one that emphases that the first lady in waiting is an unpatriotic she-devil who will wield influence over her husband.
 
This election can turn on clips like that one,
first time in my adult life I am proud of my country? :huh:

plus Obama's statement about people's bitterness causing them to "cling" to their guns and "cling" to their religion.

something as simple and meaningless as not wearing a flag pin takes on added importance
 
deep said:
This election can turn on clips like that one,
first time in my adult life I am proud of my country? :huh:

plus Obama's statement about people's bitterness causing them to "cling" to their guns and "cling" to their religion.

something as simple and meaningless as not wearing a flag pin takes on added importance
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maybe they'll go after Obama's little girls next!

tell me again, deep, why Hillary isn't winning with all of the baggage the Obama family apparently has?
 
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