US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - The Fifth Installment

[deep]

If you believe America has 50 states
Hillary has the popular vote lead.

Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)** 14,993,348 47.4% 15,116,076 47.8% Clinton +122,728 +0.4%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* 15,327,432 47.5% 15,339,938 47.5% Clinton +12,506 +0.04%



*(Iowa, Nevada, Washington & Maine Have Not Released Popular Vote Totals. RealClearPolitics has estimated the popular vote totals for Senator Obama and Clinton in these four states. RCP uses the WA Caucus results from February 9 in this estimate because the Caucuses on February 9 were the “official” contest recognized by the DNC to determine delegates to the Democratic convention. The estimate from these four Caucus states where there are not official popular vote numbers increases Senator Obama’s popular vote margin by 110,224. This number would be about 50,000 less if the Washington primary results from February 19th were used instead of the Washington Caucus results.)

**(Senator Obama was not on the Michigan Ballot and thus received zero votes. Uncommitted was on the ballot and received 238,168 votes as compared to 328,309 for Senator Clinton.)

 

[Diemen]

Seeing that Obama was not on the ballot in Michigan, I would hope she could gain a majority with that state included.

 

[deep]

Obama chose not to have his name on the ballot in Michigan

Hillary chose not to campaign in Illinois and Idaho

so perhaps we should not count Illinois and Idaho for Obama?

 

[U2democrat]

She was still an option on the ballot in those states, that comparison doesn't work

 

[phanan]

Not an accurate comparison.

 

[deep]

She was still an option on the ballot in those states, that comparison doesn't work

Obama was the same exact option in Florida as Hillary.


as for Michigan he chose to not have his name on the ballot, his free choice

Hillary chose to not compete in Illinois, her free choice


but, back to Florida and Michigan, Obama and his people chose a second time not to support any re-vote in those states,

even when a new vote would have most likely improved the votes for him because his numbers were up from earlier when the first votes occurred.
(they just knew he would not win and therefore they would rather disenfranchise two states)

So again Obama wants to ascend to the nomination with only 48 states,
Is change taking us back to the 50s?

 

[anitram]

So again Obama wants to ascend to the nomination with only 48 states,

Yes, well that's about 45 or so states more than Hillary is interested in ascending.

 

[deep]

Which states have the Hillary Clinton campaign advocated not including?

 

[anitram]

She just thinks that all the states that have caucuses, lots of black people, latte-sipping activists, and so on are irrelevant.

I'd sure love to vote for her living in one of those states in the fall.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Excellent: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/23/iraq.uselections2008

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

the WWE clips were just... honestly... i don't even have the words. can you have a dukakis on the tank moment if all three candidates do it?

 

[anitram]

Obama chose not to have his name on the ballot in Michigan

Hillary chose not to campaign in Illinois and Idaho

so perhaps we should not count Illinois and Idaho for Obama?

How do you even type that with a straight face? It's honestly crossed over from absurd to embarrassing.

Who are all those uncommitted votes in MI going to? So she gets to keep the votes she got but those disappear in thin air.

And leave it to the Clintons to singlehandedly elect a different method of attaining the primary nomination. WHAT FUCKING DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE??? Is Al Gore president??

I'm actually embarrassed on their behalf every time I see them on TV. That's so sad. I used to like them both.

 

[deep]

How do you even type that with a straight face?

bell palsy

Is Al Gore president??

In a parallel sane universe, where every vote is counted, yes.

 

[EdgeIsTooSexy]

the WWE clips were just... honestly... i don't even have the words. can you have a dukakis on the tank moment if all three candidates do it?

are you ready to rumble?

 

[INDY500]

Wrestling, what about baseball?

Not one of these candidates is going to be able to take the mound on opening day 2009 and throw a baseball 60 ft to home plate. Embarrassing!!
McCain gets a pass because of his war injuries but c'mon, Hillary is a girl and Barack throws like one.

Say what you will about GWB but at least he could deliver the ball to the catcher with a little "mustard" on it. Which is important. We need a president that can "bring the heat" and isn't afraid to "brush back" the Chevezes, Putins, Osamas and Ahmadinejads of the world.

John McCain doesn't need Condoleezza Rice as his running mate. No, no. He needs Nolan Ryan.

 

[2861U2]

Wrestling, what about baseball?

Not one of these candidates is going to be able to take the mound on opening day 2009 and throw a baseball 60 ft to home plate. Embarrassing!!
McCain gets a pass because of his war injuries but c'mon, Hillary is a girl and Barack throws like one.

Say what you will about GWB but at least he could deliver the ball to the catcher with a little "mustard" on it. Which is important. We need a president that can "bring the heat" and isn't afraid to "brush back" the Chevezes, Putins, Osamas and Ahmadinejads of the world.

John McCain doesn't need Condoleezza Rice as his running mate. No, no. He needs Nolan Ryan.

I was actually thinking about that the other day, about a President McCain throwing out the first pitch, and how he wouldn't be able to do it. Kinda sad, but kinda cool, too.

 

[deep]

McCain asks NC GOP not to run ad
Email this Story

Apr 23, 7:17 PM (ET)


INEZ, Ky. (AP) - Republican John McCain on Wednesday asked the North Carolina GOP not to run a television ad that brings up the controversial former pastor of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

North Carolina Republican party officials insisted the ad will run as planned despite McCain's request.

The ad opens with a photo of Obama and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright together and a clip of Wright, whose incendiary comments about race have bedeviled Obama.

"He's just too extreme for North Carolina," the narrator says in the 30-second spot.

"We asked them not to run it," McCain told reporters traveling with him in Kentucky. "I'm sending them an e-mail as we speak asking them to take it down.

"I don't know why they do it. Obviously, I don't control them, but I'm making it very clear, as I have a couple of times in the past, that there's no place for that kind of campaigning, and the American people don't want it," McCain said.

McCain said the ad was described to him: "I didn't see it, and I hope that I don't see it."

Republican National Committee Chairman Mike Duncan, who accompanied McCain, said he had left a voice mail message for state party chairwoman Linda Daves asking her to pull the ad.

McCain, in an e-mail to Daves, said he will draw sharp contrasts with Democrats. "But we need not engage in political tactics that only seek to divide the American people."

 

[Irvine511]

I have seen you spin DADT this way before. It is amazing how uninformed you are about these things. As someone that was there you get this all wrong and completely misrepresent it.

do enlighten me, deep.

 

[maycocksean]

Wrestling, what about baseball?

Not one of these candidates is going to be able to take the mound on opening day 2009 and throw a baseball 60 ft to home plate. Embarrassing!!
McCain gets a pass because of his war injuries but c'mon, Hillary is a girl and Barack throws like one.

Say what you will about GWB but at least he could deliver the ball to the catcher with a little "mustard" on it. Which is important. We need a president that can "bring the heat" and isn't afraid to "brush back" the Chevezes, Putins, Osamas and Ahmadinejads of the world.

John McCain doesn't need Condoleezza Rice as his running mate. No, no. He needs Nolan Ryan.

. . .the only appropriate reaction to such qualifications being considered in electing a president.

 

[verte76]

They were talking a little about this last night on one of the news channels. I think they said that if Obama and Hillary split the remaining primary delegates 50-50, and if the remaining undecided superdelegates went 50-50, Obama would be over 2025.

That's what those of us supporting Obama want. I'm pissed off that Hillary won Pennsylvania dammit!

 

[verte76]

Obama chose not to have his name on the ballot in Michigan

He didn't choose not to have his name on the ballot in Michigan dammit!

 

[verte76]

Again, I believe Obama will be the nominee

I also believe the GOP do not want to run against the Clintons at all. They lost twice to them and could not beat them down in the polls even with Bill's dirty deeds.

You may recall Gingrich and Limbaugh were saying Hillary would be the next president last fall, they had already conceded to her.

Everyone says Rove is/was a genius, he barely won each time.

The Clintons figured out how to win and governed with 60+% approvals.

And now they are out spent 2-3 to 1 and written off and they still win most all of the battle ground states. All the while having to cede 90% of a block of their base to Obama.

The Clintons have received 90% of the Black and Gay vote in previous elections for one reason only. Because in those elections the Clintons were the candidates that would and did best represent those groups in a fair and decent way, especailly compared to the GOP alternative.

I don't fault the 90% of Black voters that choose Obama over Hillary. A vote for a qualified Black role model is tempting, but for me it is not the main factor.

I just don't think it is fair to label the Clintons as Klansmen or even in the likes of politicians that have not supported voting rights, civil rights laws, affirmative action, equal rights, etc. They have a legitimate legacy and record.

True. It's not fair to label the Clintons as Klansmen or anything like that.

 

[deep]

He didn't choose not to have his name on the ballot in Michigan dammit!

are you sure?

some candidates had their name on the Mich ballot

and some did not.




It may have been the same way in Florida, too.

 

[diamond]

Hillary wants Obama to sit at the back of the bus "for the good of the Party"

So much for the process.

And Bill's accussing folk of playing the "race card" against him. Why is it always about


them?

<>

 

[BonosSaint]

Do you think a superdelegate should represent the will of his state, the national popular Democratic vote or his own independent judgment as to what would be best for the country?

 

[deep]

Do you think a superdelegate

a super delegate ?

no such animal

what a bizarre and f**ed up system


and this is in a party that calls itself

democratic


Howard Dean - what an incompetent idiot
creating and presiding over this total and complete cluster feck

at the end of the voting (primaries) a nominee should not be undetermined
and the decision is left to a bunch of political hacks


there will be 100% legitimate reasons for supporters of either Obama and Clinton to be unhappy
with the outcome

 

[Dreadsox]

When did I create the thread about this problem? February?

Haha!!!!! And I was made fun of. I was told that this would not be an issue.

Tick tick tick........


Draft Gore.

Draft Edwards....

Declare this mess a draw and start over.

 

[BonosSaint]

I'm not in disagreement with you on whether there should be superdelegates. But being there are.....

 

[deep]

I don't believe there is a solution.


everybody is fucked

the whole country and the Democratic party in particular

This race, the convoluted ways that individual states have set up primaries and awarding of delegates is total bullshit


what if we had 10% of the electoral votes in 2000 made by appointed superelectors?

yes, this is a close election, if we had a basketball game go into overtime and the score was 131-130

one side would win

this is like they don't play the last two minutes on the clock, but instead
five superreferees meet behind close doors
and award the last 21 points and determined a winner!!

why are a large portion of the delegates needed to be nominated separate and apart from what people actually vote for?

This is something you might expect from Vladimir Putin or perhaps some other corrupt ruling power

 

[deep]

.

Declare this mess a draw and start over.

a good place to start

might be with voting in Florida and Michigan (don't count the early voting)

or is that just too fair?