US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - The Fifth Installment

[2861U2]

"I'm going to tell you something: That boy's finger does not need to be on the button,"

And that's offensive because....?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

You don't see why calling him a "boy" is offensive? That's what adult African American males used to be called by some whites in the days of slavery and segregation and bigotry.

 

[diamond]

White women begin to turn away from Clinton
David Lightman | McClatchy Newspapers

last updated: April 13, 2008 06:43:52 AM

LEVITTOWN, Pa. — Like many women over 50, Paula Houwen was eager to vote for Hillary Clinton for president.

"I was impressed when she was first lady. She wasn't the country's trophy wife," the 56-year-old suburban Philadelphia pharmacist recalled.

Today, though, Houwen's no longer a Clinton fan.

"I do not like the way Hillary Clinton has run her campaign," she said.

Clinton's strongest core of support — white women — is beginning to erode in Pennsylvania, the site of the critical April 22 Democratic presidential primary, and a loss here could effectively end her White House run.

A Quinnipiac University survey taken April 3-6 in Pennsylvania found that Clinton's support fell 6 percentage points in a week among white women. Nationally, a Lifetime Networks poll of women found that 26 percent said they liked Clinton less now than in January, while only 15 percent said they liked her more.

"These are Democratic women who waited all their lives for a woman president, but Hillary is not turning them on," said polling analyst Clay Richards.

The Clinton campaign is aware of the danger, and last week it began dispatching friends of Clinton from New York, Washington and elsewhere to key Pennsylvania communities to have "living room chats" with women.

"We thought this might happen," senior Clinton adviser Ann Lewis said of the erosion. A key reason, she said, is rival Barack Obama's ad barrage, notably his gentle but persistent reminders to TV viewers that he's well-equipped to heal the ailing economy.

"I can't overcome the media barrage, so we need to go back to talking to people about their personal concerns," said Lewis, "and emphasizing her experience."

Economic concerns are at the top of most women's lists, and "Obama is coming across to more and more people as qualified on that issue," Richards said.

Interviews in suburban Philadelphia, an area full of swing voters who are likely to determine the outcome of the primary, found other reasons for Clinton's shaky support.

A lot of white women, and for that matter white men, want the race to end and increasingly consider Obama an acceptable nominee.

"There may be a general, reluctant acceptance that things just don't look that good for Clinton," said Susan Carroll, a professor of political science and women's and gender studies at Rutgers University.

The most familiar echo among many Pennsylvania women when they discuss Clinton, however, is disappointment. Ask them when they became disillusioned with the woman who would be president, and they can cite almost the exact moment.

For Clare Howard, a meditation teacher from Southhampton, it was the night in January when Bill Clinton suggested that Obama did well in the South Carolina primary because of his race.

That went too far, said Howard, 60. "It was like they would do anything to win," she said.

Joan Schmidt, 60, a school psychologist in Levittown, grew tired of hearing Clinton tout — and exaggerate — her experience.

Jane Dovel, 68, an artist in Doylestown, turned away from Clinton after hearing the New York senator's reaction to Obama's comments that Ronald Reagan had been a "transformative political figure."

Clinton fired back that Republicans hadn't had better ideas. "I don't think it's a better idea to privatize Social Security," she said. "I don't think it's a better idea to eliminate the minimum wage."

That's not what Obama had said, recalled Dovel. "What Clinton said was a blatant lie," she said. "From that moment on, she was history. She was not to be trusted."

Obama's increasing ability to convince these women that he's on their side has contributed to their shift away from Clinton.

Most are old enough to remember John F. Kennedy, and it's common to hear them say how much the Illinois senator reminds them of the young president. "He's definitely someone who knows how to get everyone on board," said Jill Saul, a Bristol teacher.

Howard was struck by how much her three children were impressed with Obama — much the way Democratic youngsters were taken with Kennedy.

"If I ever want to look my kids in the eye again," she laughed, "I have to go with Obama."

The Clinton forces realize that a new trend_ Clinton, after all, still leads Obama among white women by 28 points in the Quinnipiac poll — could quickly become a tidal wave if left unchecked.

So they're planning more living-room visits, closed to the media and not publicized, as a way of reminding people of Clinton's personal qualities.

Clinton is getting to be a tougher sell, though, because a lot of women have thought long and hard about moving away from someone whom they've wanted for a long time.

"If elected, I'm sure she'll do a good job," said Michele Scarborough, a Quakertown borough councilwoman. "But I just don't feel she's one of us."

To read the Lifetime Networks poll, go to:

www.mylifetime.com/community/my-lif...ts-so-do-womens-opinions-candidates-perceptio

To read the Quinnipiac poll, go to:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1327.xml?ReleaseID=1165

Are you close to taking that leap of faith yet Sister Springsteen?

 

[diamond]

You don't see why calling him a "boy" is offensive? That's what adult African American males used to be called by some whites in the days of slavery and segregation and bigotry.

it was a bit obtuse of a statement.

<>

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Are you close to taking that leap of faith yet Sister Springsteen?

How do you even know who I voted for and who I support? I keep that private, especially here.

Calling an African American man a boy is not obtuse, nothing obtuse about that whatsoever.

 

[diamond]

How do you even know who I voted for and who I support? I keep that private, especially here.

Calling an African American man a boy is not obtuse, nothing obtuse about that whatsoever.

It is obtuse and clumsy, by calling him a boy it sounded like and was spun to sound like a pejorative.

He was trying to highlight Barrack's youthfulness.

He could of said, "that young man shouldn't be close to the nuclear button" and there would have been no story.
He used the word "boy" showing his obtuseness and insensitivity.

This was a Trent Lott moment.

And you are such a Hillary supporter, even a 3rd grader could figure that out.


<>

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

And you are such a Hillary supporter, even a 3rd grader could figure that out.

Then maybe you should go back to school

I don't care what the guy was trying to do, any white person should know not to call an African American man a boy.

 

[Diemen]

It is obtuse and clumsy, by calling him a boy it sounded like and was spun to sound like a pejorative.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Using boy is far more than just obtuse and clumsy. It's insulting and degrading. There is no "spin" necessary.

 

[2861U2]

I don't care what the guy was trying to do, any white person should know not to call an African American man a boy.

Wow. The PC country in which we live...

 

[diamond]

I don't care what the guy was trying to do, any white person should know not to call an African American man a boy.

agreed.

 

[Irvine511]

Wow. The PC country in which we live...

seriously?

 

[diamond]

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Using boy is far more than just obtuse and clumsy. It's insulting and degrading. There is no "spin" necessary.

reading between the lines sometimes takes more energy than knee jerk reactions.

<>

 

[U2democrat]

Wow. The PC country in which we live...

No, it's the reality of racism.

I have racist members of my family who will refer to an African American man as "that boy" or a woman as "that girl", and it's meant in a derogatory sense. It's been that way for over a century, it's nothing new.

 

[Irvine511]

reading between the lines sometimes takes more energy than knee jerk reactions.

<>

thinking is hard, i know.

 

[diamond]

No, it's the reality of racism.

I have racist members of my family who will refer to an African American man as "that boy" or a woman as "that girl", and it's meant in a derogatory sense. It's been that way for over a century, it's nothing new.

you would agree we are on the way out of the land of racism, maybe not quite as fast but we are on the correct path right ?

some of the older generation are slower than others and are clumsy.

<>

 

[diamond]

thinking is hard, i know.

i knew u couldn't stay mad at me long boo-boo.


<>

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

some of the older generation are slower than others and are clumsy.

No excuse. Was that Strom Thurmond's excuse too? Trent Lott? Barbara Bush for what she said about the Katrina victims? Age is no excuse for ignorance, or bigotry.

 

[deep]

politico.com

April 14, 2008
Categories: Barack Obama

Davis Apologizes: 'A poor choice of words'

Rep. Geoff Davis, moving to contain the damage of a Saturday night reference to Barack Obama as a "boy" whose finger shouldn't be on the nuclear button, has apologized.

In a letter to Obama, which a Davis aide provided to Politico, Davis apologized for his "poor choice of words."

"I offer my sincere apology to you and ask for your forgiveness," he wrote.

The letter makes no reference to the substance of Davis's remarks, that Obama's behavior in a classified exercise had convinced Davis the Illinois Senator is unready to be president.

"Immediately upon arriving back in Washington, D.C. today, Congressman Davis personally delivered a letter of apology to Senator Obama's office," said Davis campaign manager Jeremy Hughes.

it does not matter what the intend was

was he was thinking (youth)

bottom line

adults should not be referred to as "boys" or "girls" and every politicain should be 'smart" enough to know that.


at least, this guy was "smart enough" to immediately apologize 100%
and not try and spin it or nuance it by referring to Obama's youthful appearance or some other silly thing

 

[2861U2]

I guess I can't walk up to one of my black friends and say "Whats up, boy" anymore.

Wow, all the times that I've ever said that, I've been implying my racism.

You learn something new everyday

 

[yolland]

No, it's the reality of racism.

I have racist members of my family who will refer to an African American man as "that boy" or a woman as "that girl", and it's meant in a derogatory sense. It's been that way for over a century, it's nothing new.

Yep. Especially for those of us who grew up in the South, there are indeed still (typically older) white people who routinely refer to black men as "boy." It's not an accident, it's a habit that comes from categorically perceiving black people as undignified and behaviorally and mentally childlike.

 

[deep]

I guess I can't walk up to one of my black friends and say "Whats up, boy" anymore.

you better not


he might steal your pencil

 

[diamond]

some of you boys and girls and polictically correct word police officers need to get off your santimonious, prigish high horses lest you suffer more oxygen deprivation, thereby causing greater disconnect with the majority of us in real time, crucifying those that are an offender for a word..

<>

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I guess I can't walk up to one of my black friends and say "Whats up, boy" anymore.

Wow, all the times that I've ever said that, I've been implying my racism.

You learn something new everyday

How your friends take it is up to them- but no offense, you should read up on some past history and think about it in that context. Even if my friends didn't mind I wouldn't do it. In my mind it is completely wrong and yes, racist.

Saying that about an African American man running for President, that is just so wrong on many levels. Whatever his intent was.

 

[diamond]

No excuse. Was that Strom Thurmond's excuse too? Trent Lott? Barbara Bush .

mostly out of step w word correctness of times-esp babbs.

<>

 

[2861U2]

you better not


he might steal your pencil

That was funny.

 

[yolland]

some of you boys and girls and polictically correct word police officers need to get off your santimonious, prigish high horses lest you suffer more oxygen deprivation, thereby causing greater disconnect with the majority of us in real time, crucifying those that are an offender for a word..

Yes, everyone was clamoring for his "crucifixion."

 

[diamond]

Yes, everyone was clamoring for his "crucifixion."

political crucifixion.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

mostly out of step w word correctness of times-esp babbs.

Really? Senators and first ladies are that clueless? Come on.

What's with <>? Secret code? RIP dbs

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

some of you boys and girls and polictically correct word police officers need to get off your santimonious, prigish high horses lest you suffer more oxygen deprivation, thereby causing greater disconnect with the majority of us in real time, crucifying those that are an offender for a word..

Thesaurus working overtime again I see. Don't wear out the pages.

 

[2861U2]

How your friends take it is up to them- but no offense, you should read up on some past history and think about it in that context.

Fair enough. But where does it end, though? When referencing my African-American neighbors 2 houses away, can I say "they have a cute little baby boy?"