US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - Part III - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-02-2007, 04:33 PM   #61
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 06:22 AM
OK, I don't like Bill Clinton. There. I'm an independent, as well. I'm not a Clinton fan.

George W. Bush has done nothing for this.

Now, discuss with me without referring to Bill Clinton, please.
__________________

__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 04:34 PM   #62
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 05:22 AM
2861U2

And do you still think you were waranted bringing up Clinton knowing the climate of the situation now?
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 04:55 PM   #63
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,255
Local Time: 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
OK, I don't like Bill Clinton. There. I'm an independent, as well. I'm not a Clinton fan.

George W. Bush has done nothing for this.

Now, discuss with me without referring to Bill Clinton, please.
Gladly. Gays in the military- is that the discussion to which you are referring?
__________________
2861U2 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 04:59 PM   #64
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 06:22 AM
Correct. The issue of gays in the military. Your issue seemed to be my use of the word "bigot" to describe these people who want to deny rights to citizens. I'm glad you don't hold those views, but you defend people who do.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 05:09 PM   #65
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,255
Local Time: 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Correct. The issue of gays in the military. Your issue seemed to be my use of the word "bigot" to describe these people who want to deny rights to citizens. I'm glad you don't hold those views, but you defend people who do.
When it comes to gays being allowed to serve in the military, I will not defend any Republican candidate who believes they shouldnt serve. Like I've said, on this issue, I believe they are dead wrong. What I was trying to convey (maybe unsuccessfully) was that all I saw was one-sided attacks. I'm fully aware that Bill is no longer president, but if you're going to criticize, criticize both sides, including anyone who supports or has ever supported DADT. If you do that, I'm more than happy to join in and criticize Romney or whoever else (at least on this particular issue- I'll defend them on mostly everything else, though).
__________________
2861U2 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 05:16 PM   #66
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

I'm fully aware that Bill is no longer president, but if you're going to criticize, criticize both sides, including anyone who supports or has ever supported DADT.
Well you're still ignoring all context of the time. Until you are willing to recognise what was going on at the time, this discussion is useless.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 05:26 PM   #67
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,255
Local Time: 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well you're still ignoring all context of the time. Until you are willing to recognise what was going on at the time, this discussion is useless.
From what I understand, gays were being brutally harassed in the military (Allen Schindler), causing Clinton to sign DADT. That's no excuse though. Saying that somebody CAN'T serve in the military if they desire is just wrong. If a homosexual acknowledges the potential danger to himself by his peers and doesn't want to take a chance, fine. But I'm sure there were those who, knowing of the harassment, would still have signed up and couldnt.
__________________
2861U2 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 05:29 PM   #68
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


Saying that somebody CAN'T serve in the military if they desire is just wrong.
I agree. Same with marriage as well.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 06:01 PM   #69
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
I'm fully aware that Bill is no longer president, but if you're going to criticize, criticize both sides, including anyone who supports or has ever supported DADT. If you do that, I'm more than happy to join in and criticize Romney or whoever else (at least on this particular issue- I'll defend them on mostly everything else, though).
Do you think that at the end of the Civil War it was even remotely possible that an African American person who just was released from slavery would have been allowed equal rights?

These things happen in steps. DADT is a step. It was the first step. It's SUPPOSED to be progressive. Bush and his fellow GOPers have done nothing since then. Nothing,
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 06:02 PM   #70
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I agree. Same with marriage as well.
Exactly.

Anything else is bigotry.

Those against gay marriage don't have opinions.

They're just wrong.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 06:29 PM   #71
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Do you think that at the end of the Civil War it was even remotely possible that an African American person who just was released from slavery would have been allowed equal rights?

These things happen in steps.
Actually, this is wrong--black Southerners had MORE rights during the Reconstruction era than they would for three-quarters of a century afterwards; the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the 14th and 15th amendments guaranteed African-Americans' civil rights, including the right to vote, but these rights were then effectively retracted through a legislative process beginning about 25 years after the start of Reconstruction and complete by another 25 years after that. Jim Crow wasn't "baby steps," it was a backlash.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 06:50 PM   #72
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 06:22 AM
Which goes along with my point of it not being possible.

Not that I'm at all for the Jim Crow laws, but looking at the context of the time, it's not surprising at all that those resulted. A lot of ignorance has to be overcome.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 07:14 PM   #73
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 11:22 AM
However, there is a little difference between blacks and gays serving in the military---it's easier to tell whether someone is black than gay It was easier to discriminate then.

Doesn't change the fact however that denying gays the right to fight for our/their country is just plain wrong.
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 07:55 PM   #74
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 06:22 AM
My point in the comparison was to talk about how slow our country moves away from these things. It took us a long time with racism, just as the issue over rights for homosexuals will take a long time.

Having a President who's willing to take more steps is a start.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 08:42 PM   #75
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 07:22 AM
There are no further baby steps to take. The next forward move is for gays to openly serve in the military, subject to the same sexual conduct rules as heterosexuals.
__________________

__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com