verte76
Blue Crack Addict
Well, Obama and Huckabee won in Iowa.
US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - Part III
- Thread starter phillyfan26
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
- Status
Canadiens1131
ONE love, blood, life
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2004
- Messages
- 10,363
5 days, homie.verte76 said:
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Not sure, don't have their tax returns-but Mitt Romney might be wealthier than John Edwards. His house is pretty big and fancy too, in one of the wealthiest towns in MA. He might be slumming it going to the WH too 
God forbid.
God forbid.
zuropa_fit
Blue Crack Addict
So I don't usually come in here but I gotta say this somewhere.
I was a bit down yesterday, thinking that as much as I'd like a woman president, I don't really like Hillary as a person and I'm not sure about some of her policies. I really like Obama and it was making me sad to think that there's no way this country would ever elect a black man. My friend has been campaigning for Obama for a year now and he said that his hope is that he wins in Iowa and that inspires people like me, who don't want to waste their Democratic vote.
And by god, that's exactly what happened. I am totally on the Obama Bandwagon and they're going to have to shove me off. I hope I'm not the only one.
I was a bit down yesterday, thinking that as much as I'd like a woman president, I don't really like Hillary as a person and I'm not sure about some of her policies. I really like Obama and it was making me sad to think that there's no way this country would ever elect a black man. My friend has been campaigning for Obama for a year now and he said that his hope is that he wins in Iowa and that inspires people like me, who don't want to waste their Democratic vote.
And by god, that's exactly what happened. I am totally on the Obama Bandwagon and they're going to have to shove me off. I hope I'm not the only one.
Obama Edwards ticket would be great. I do like Richardson because he has created so many jobs here in New Mexico. These are jobs in the film industry, space, and technology. I'll be happy if he stays governor of New Mexico, since he is doing a great job here. At least this showed the media that Americans aren't sheep and stupid. I couldn't stand it when the media was saying for months that the election was already decided by them.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
the rest of the world seems in on the Obamarama ... (okay, a bit of an exaggeration, but he's the best chance we have to repair our ability to wield softer power abroad):
[q]Hope returns: Obama’s victory and global politics
Damn, I love Americans. Just when you’ve written them off as hopeless, as a nation in decline, they turn around and do something extraordinary, which tells you why the United States of America is still the greatest nation on earth. But too, what is happening in America and Kenya holds lessons for politicians everywhere, and South Africa would do well to take heed.
Barack Obama’s strong lead in Iowa, nine points ahead of his closest Democratic rival, John Edwards, 10 points ahead of Hillary Clinton, shows we are entering a new world, one where the internet exposes every lie, where chat rooms allow unprecedented discussion, where blogs see commentary untrammelled by the dictates of powerful news corporations. In this world the electorate are no longer stupid, no longer cowed; we may be entering the era of the world’s most savvy voters yet.
In this new world where expression is truly free, where ideas will be the most important currency of the next decade and many of the greatest advances in any field will come from those under the age of 30, politics are undergoing a revolution.
Voters are demanding substance over style. They are showing that it’s not money or how smart a leader appears that counts, they want substance, they want heart, they want leaders who give a damn. After Barrack Obama delivered perhaps the most inspirational speech the US has heard since Martin Luther King or Robert Kennedy — four decades of empty rhetoric was broken by a man who talked of the power of “hope” — he stepped off the stage and the loudspeakers blared out the Motown hit, Here I am baby, signed, sealed, delivered, I’m yours!
And that’s what voters want — politicians that belong to them, not big business. They don’t want politicians who speak down to them like Thabo Mbeki or Hillary Clinton, they want people who speak with them, who understand the nuanced complexities of 21st century day-to-day life.[/q]
[q]Hope returns: Obama’s victory and global politics
Damn, I love Americans. Just when you’ve written them off as hopeless, as a nation in decline, they turn around and do something extraordinary, which tells you why the United States of America is still the greatest nation on earth. But too, what is happening in America and Kenya holds lessons for politicians everywhere, and South Africa would do well to take heed.
Barack Obama’s strong lead in Iowa, nine points ahead of his closest Democratic rival, John Edwards, 10 points ahead of Hillary Clinton, shows we are entering a new world, one where the internet exposes every lie, where chat rooms allow unprecedented discussion, where blogs see commentary untrammelled by the dictates of powerful news corporations. In this world the electorate are no longer stupid, no longer cowed; we may be entering the era of the world’s most savvy voters yet.
In this new world where expression is truly free, where ideas will be the most important currency of the next decade and many of the greatest advances in any field will come from those under the age of 30, politics are undergoing a revolution.
Voters are demanding substance over style. They are showing that it’s not money or how smart a leader appears that counts, they want substance, they want heart, they want leaders who give a damn. After Barrack Obama delivered perhaps the most inspirational speech the US has heard since Martin Luther King or Robert Kennedy — four decades of empty rhetoric was broken by a man who talked of the power of “hope” — he stepped off the stage and the loudspeakers blared out the Motown hit, Here I am baby, signed, sealed, delivered, I’m yours!
And that’s what voters want — politicians that belong to them, not big business. They don’t want politicians who speak down to them like Thabo Mbeki or Hillary Clinton, they want people who speak with them, who understand the nuanced complexities of 21st century day-to-day life.[/q]
joyfulgirl
Blue Crack Addict
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2001
- Messages
- 16,690
And yet style over substance is what I'm getting from Obama so I don't know what this writer and everyone else is seeing that I am missing. Lots of talk about hope and optimism, not a lot of specifics.
But yes, it was an exciting night for sure.
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
joyfulgirl said:
Have you been to Obama's website yet? He actually lays out his plans for all the major issues there in quite a detailed fashion. I'm very impressed with it. He has smart, doable, change-making, solutions, if he's given the chance to put them into practice.
I just realized the tone of this response may have come off as rude, and that is the absolute opposite of my intention. I was just trying to direct to a place that might give you more of the information you've been looking for on Obama.
joyfulgirl
Blue Crack Addict
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2001
- Messages
- 16,690
U2isthebest said:
Didn't sound rude at all. And thanks, no I haven't been to his website. I'll do that for sure.
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
joyfulgirl said:
Great! I know it's easy to misunderstand people's intentions on the Internet, so I wanted to make sure that didn't happen here.
Btw, his official website is www.barackobama.com
Last edited:
zuropa_fit
Blue Crack Addict
Yeah, after the speeches last night I went to his and Hillary's sites - I liked his better.
2861U2
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
If Obama winds up being the nominee, I sure hope the media goes after him and his divisive church the same way they've been focusing on Huckabee and his religion.
But I wouldn't hold my breath.
But I wouldn't hold my breath.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
2861U2 said:
must be true
they had it on "fair and balanced" news channel
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
2861U2 said:
yolland
Forum Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 7,471
There were a few articles about Obama's church and his pastor in the New York Times back when he announced his candidacy last year...but don't worry, if he wins the nomination I'm sure it will be made an issue of. Hannity's attempt to morally equate black liberation theology with white supremacist ideology was, of course, laughably disingenuous.
Considering Huckabee's own statements about taking back the country for Christ, his status as a minister and the fact that last night's exit polls indicated a majority of those who voted for him rated his religious views as 'Very Important' to them, it's hardly strange that the media has devoted considerable space to his religious beliefs. They may not matter as such to you (2861), but they certainly do to a hefty segment of his current and prospective supporters.
Considering Huckabee's own statements about taking back the country for Christ, his status as a minister and the fact that last night's exit polls indicated a majority of those who voted for him rated his religious views as 'Very Important' to them, it's hardly strange that the media has devoted considerable space to his religious beliefs. They may not matter as such to you (2861), but they certainly do to a hefty segment of his current and prospective supporters.
Last edited:
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
I don't think Edwards will take the second spot again.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Why America needs Obama
By Deval Patrick | January 5, 2008
I am proud to be a Democrat, but sometimes Democratic politics can be tiresome.
For years, candidates have appealed to voters by arguing how they can win or why any Democrat would be better than any Republican. They miss the fact that voters are more interested in why Democrats should win than how we will. They mistakenly believe that discontent with Republicans will assure a Democratic victory, when in truth most of us aren't buying 100 percent of what either party is selling. So, election after election, we end up with the same old debate and commentary about competing electoral tactics rather than a vision for the future.
We have a chance this time to choose a different kind of candidate, a different kind of president.
Barack Obama is the only candidate in the field who has demonstrated the ability to unite people across differences around common cause.
From his work in Chicago neighborhoods, to the Illinois Senate, to the US Senate, to his success in campaigning for other candidates in so-called red states like Missouri, Nebraska, Tennessee, and Virginia, Obama has shown an uncommon ability to work across differences and get meaningful results. Applying that talent to a vision for a better, safer, more just, and more prosperous American future could not come a moment too soon.
We face profound challenges. The Bush administration has been ineffective in foreign policy and absent in domestic policy. While our troops are performing well abroad, their mission was poorly conceived and their exit strategy nonexistent. At home, the poor are in terrible shape and the middle class are one month away from being poor. Healthcare and college costs are getting further and further out of reach, roads and bridges are in disrepair, and a lot of the people in power have spent more time denying climate change than trying to defeat it. Everyday people are anxious, and their anxiety knows no party.
America needs Obama.
He has comprehensive plans to end the war in Iraq, provide universal healthcare, lift up schools, and to save the planet. I like many of his ideas. But frankly most candidates in the race - Democrat and Republican - have a couple of good ideas. What I want, and what I sense the American people want, is more than good policy. We want great leadership.
This is where Barack Obama rises above the field. Instead of calculation or connections, he has risen on convictions. Instead of stoking partisan anger, he calls on our common aspirations. Instead of the right and the left, he is focused on right and wrong. At a time when so many of us - Democrats, Republicans, and independents - are tired of petty division and desperate for change, Obama makes a claim on all of us to join in restoring the American dream. His leadership is about articulating a vision and motivating others to reach for it.
That is why Obama consistently polls higher with independents and Republicans than any other Democrat. That is why he is greeted by crowds made up of every kind of person, from all kinds of backgrounds. That is why he won the Iowa caucuses on Thursday. That is why he has received more than 750,000 donations, mostly from small donors, and signed up a half-million supporters from all age groups, states, races, and political affiliations - many of them involved in the process for the first time. When people try to imagine the kind of leadership they want and know we need, the image that comes to many minds is Obama.
And here is where the wise guys and gals come in. The political commentators and self-appointed experts start telling us that we can't have what we want. I heard that throughout my own campaign. I ask the people of America to do now what I asked the people of Massachusetts to do: take a chance not so much on a candidate, but on your own aspirations. If we do, then Obama wins - and so do we.
Once in a generation, a candidate comes along who is committed to more than succeeding at the partisan food fight in Washington. Once in a generation, a candidate comes along who is both book smart and street smart, who is equally at ease with the meek and the mighty - and perhaps most especially with himself. Once in a generation, we get the opportunity to take a quantum leap forward in our politics. Barack Obama is that candidate and this is our opportunity. I don't care if it's not his turn, because I know in my head and in my heart that it is his time.
Deval Patrick is governor of Massachusetts.
By Deval Patrick | January 5, 2008
I am proud to be a Democrat, but sometimes Democratic politics can be tiresome.
For years, candidates have appealed to voters by arguing how they can win or why any Democrat would be better than any Republican. They miss the fact that voters are more interested in why Democrats should win than how we will. They mistakenly believe that discontent with Republicans will assure a Democratic victory, when in truth most of us aren't buying 100 percent of what either party is selling. So, election after election, we end up with the same old debate and commentary about competing electoral tactics rather than a vision for the future.
We have a chance this time to choose a different kind of candidate, a different kind of president.
Barack Obama is the only candidate in the field who has demonstrated the ability to unite people across differences around common cause.
From his work in Chicago neighborhoods, to the Illinois Senate, to the US Senate, to his success in campaigning for other candidates in so-called red states like Missouri, Nebraska, Tennessee, and Virginia, Obama has shown an uncommon ability to work across differences and get meaningful results. Applying that talent to a vision for a better, safer, more just, and more prosperous American future could not come a moment too soon.
We face profound challenges. The Bush administration has been ineffective in foreign policy and absent in domestic policy. While our troops are performing well abroad, their mission was poorly conceived and their exit strategy nonexistent. At home, the poor are in terrible shape and the middle class are one month away from being poor. Healthcare and college costs are getting further and further out of reach, roads and bridges are in disrepair, and a lot of the people in power have spent more time denying climate change than trying to defeat it. Everyday people are anxious, and their anxiety knows no party.
America needs Obama.
He has comprehensive plans to end the war in Iraq, provide universal healthcare, lift up schools, and to save the planet. I like many of his ideas. But frankly most candidates in the race - Democrat and Republican - have a couple of good ideas. What I want, and what I sense the American people want, is more than good policy. We want great leadership.
This is where Barack Obama rises above the field. Instead of calculation or connections, he has risen on convictions. Instead of stoking partisan anger, he calls on our common aspirations. Instead of the right and the left, he is focused on right and wrong. At a time when so many of us - Democrats, Republicans, and independents - are tired of petty division and desperate for change, Obama makes a claim on all of us to join in restoring the American dream. His leadership is about articulating a vision and motivating others to reach for it.
That is why Obama consistently polls higher with independents and Republicans than any other Democrat. That is why he is greeted by crowds made up of every kind of person, from all kinds of backgrounds. That is why he won the Iowa caucuses on Thursday. That is why he has received more than 750,000 donations, mostly from small donors, and signed up a half-million supporters from all age groups, states, races, and political affiliations - many of them involved in the process for the first time. When people try to imagine the kind of leadership they want and know we need, the image that comes to many minds is Obama.
And here is where the wise guys and gals come in. The political commentators and self-appointed experts start telling us that we can't have what we want. I heard that throughout my own campaign. I ask the people of America to do now what I asked the people of Massachusetts to do: take a chance not so much on a candidate, but on your own aspirations. If we do, then Obama wins - and so do we.
Once in a generation, a candidate comes along who is committed to more than succeeding at the partisan food fight in Washington. Once in a generation, a candidate comes along who is both book smart and street smart, who is equally at ease with the meek and the mighty - and perhaps most especially with himself. Once in a generation, we get the opportunity to take a quantum leap forward in our politics. Barack Obama is that candidate and this is our opportunity. I don't care if it's not his turn, because I know in my head and in my heart that it is his time.
Deval Patrick is governor of Massachusetts.
LarryMullen's POPAngel
Blue Crack Distributor
joyfulgirl said:
Exactly. I'm not buying any bumper stickers (for anyone) just yet.
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
For whatever reason his style is working for people, and if he can continue to draw the support of the youth, independents, and even some republicans he will be unstoppable.
2861U2
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
joyfulgirl said:
Yes.
I really am not understanding what is so great about this guy. I like to think that I watch a lot of news, but (with the exception of debates) whenever I hear the guy talk, I never hear him say anything specific about positions or issues. It's just a bunch of vague generalizations. All I seem to hear is "change hope change hope change change hope change change future brighter America." That's stuff anyone could say, but somehow people see it as inspiring. If he gets the nomination, he's not going to be able to get by doing just that.
2861U2 said:
I hate to praise Mitt Romney for anything but he, along with maybe Huckabee and Paul to a lesser extent, is the only one who seems to actually see reality for what it is. This argument you are using is the same one Hillary used for a year and fat lotta good it did her. You live in a country where a good number of people voted for Bush over Gore because he was a guy they could go have a beer with. Now all of a sudden you think that a candidate has to go out there and outline their issues rather than giving off a Bobby Kennedy-esque vibe? That's fine, you can choose to ignore it, but Mitt is right, if the GOP does it, it will cost them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily sold on Obama's proposed policies (some I actually dislike). But he is absolutely electable and he's ridiculously likeable and when he speaks in front of a crowd, it's magic. Nobody else has that. If you think lesser people haven't won before on that same sort of style over substance, then think again.
I would not want to run against him. Not with the history of how your country chooses who they vote for.
coemgen
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Latest CNN poll results:
Dems: Obama 39, Clinton 29, Edwards 16
GOP: McCain 32, Romney 26, Huckabee 14, Giuliani 11
The Obama train is gaining steam.
Dems: Obama 39, Clinton 29, Edwards 16
GOP: McCain 32, Romney 26, Huckabee 14, Giuliani 11
The Obama train is gaining steam.
maycocksean
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
When it comes to policy, I think Obama has some good ideas, and I'm certain he has some not so good ideas--in this regard he's no different than any of the other candidates. If you want the honest truth, in addition to Obama, I would be okay with Edwards, Clinton, and believe it or not McCain, from a standpoint of whether they would make a good president. Most of the candidates this election don't seem truly dangerous (the way I felt about Bush in 2000. I do get that same vibe about Romney and Guilani to a degree though--the sense that these men really shouldn't be running the country) and I think that's good.
But what I like about Obama is that he is motivating people to become involved in the political process--people who ordinarily wouldn't have been, people who had been tempted to give up on the value of their participation. This can only be a good thing. The more involved people are, the more real accountablity our leaders will have to provide. The people of this country HAVE to believe that change is possible. . .they have to be optimistic, to have hope. It's not just touch-feely, warm-fuzzy stuff, it is vital to the health of the republic! What bothers me most about the Obama critics is that the criticism so often seems to come from a place of resigned cynicism, which I think is sad.
Let me also add, that again, if you take the time to look at what Obama is actually about--he really is different. That's what stood out for me about him when I first read about him two years ago. He really is outside the knee-jerk party line way of thinking. All that talk about bringing the country together--it's not just talk. He listens to the opposing side, and actually considers what they have to say. Who does that anymore? Or admits to it anyway? I have a feeling that Obama will disappoint some of his supporters when he takes office because he will take surprising policy stands that won't always toe the line of either party.
And finally, Anitram is right. The "hope and change" thing really can take you all the way to the White House. Two names come to mind.
John F. Kennedy
Ronald Reagan
Regardless of what you think of them or their policies, that sense of possiblity is a large part of what got them into the White House.
But what I like about Obama is that he is motivating people to become involved in the political process--people who ordinarily wouldn't have been, people who had been tempted to give up on the value of their participation. This can only be a good thing. The more involved people are, the more real accountablity our leaders will have to provide. The people of this country HAVE to believe that change is possible. . .they have to be optimistic, to have hope. It's not just touch-feely, warm-fuzzy stuff, it is vital to the health of the republic! What bothers me most about the Obama critics is that the criticism so often seems to come from a place of resigned cynicism, which I think is sad.
Let me also add, that again, if you take the time to look at what Obama is actually about--he really is different. That's what stood out for me about him when I first read about him two years ago. He really is outside the knee-jerk party line way of thinking. All that talk about bringing the country together--it's not just talk. He listens to the opposing side, and actually considers what they have to say. Who does that anymore? Or admits to it anyway? I have a feeling that Obama will disappoint some of his supporters when he takes office because he will take surprising policy stands that won't always toe the line of either party.
And finally, Anitram is right. The "hope and change" thing really can take you all the way to the White House. Two names come to mind.
John F. Kennedy
Ronald Reagan
Regardless of what you think of them or their policies, that sense of possiblity is a large part of what got them into the White House.
yolland
Forum Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 7,471
Last edited:
ntalwar
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
this really is a "change" election.
and i can't think a 70 year old iraq war supporter is going to have a shred of a chance against Obama.
don't forget, McCain crushed Bush in NH in 2000 and didn't win the primary. i'd much rather have McCain be the nominee than any of the rest of these egomanical infants, but now that every candidate from both parties is talking about how much they are all about "change" -- really, who's got the credibility?
and i can't think a 70 year old iraq war supporter is going to have a shred of a chance against Obama.
don't forget, McCain crushed Bush in NH in 2000 and didn't win the primary. i'd much rather have McCain be the nominee than any of the rest of these egomanical infants, but now that every candidate from both parties is talking about how much they are all about "change" -- really, who's got the credibility?
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Damn, wouldn't it really be nice to have a president that isn't just liked by it's base and that's it. It would be great to have a president that is liked internationally again.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
BonoVoxSupastar said:
we might even go back to using soft power to get what we want, instead of bullying and invading.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Irvine511 said:
The right would love that...
They seem to like the gun-toting version of Jesus better.
Earnie Shavers
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
BonoVoxSupastar said:
I was trying to find images of our newspaper front pages over the weekend, all plastered with big photos of Obama, and very positive "America turns a corner/Dawn of a new age" type headlines. They don't seem to archive them, but this article - way more striking when you know that the author, Paul Sheehan, is actually a well known conservative cheerleader here - is the sort of angle our media is mostly reporting, ie ObamaCrush.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/america-where-hope-never-dies/2008/01/06/1199554482216.html
Internationally, it's always going to be the candidate perceived to be the furthest from a certain George W. Bush that will be the most popular.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
