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Old 01-31-2008, 04:09 AM   #76
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
The video where Ron Paul expressed his views about evolution showed him being an idiot.
What video? And no matter what he said in the video, if you think he is an idiot, he is nowhere in hell as much of an idiot as the other Republicans and their foreign policy strategies.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:11 AM   #77
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Originally posted by martha

And you have been known to be inconsistent in your opinions.
I'd like to correct myself. I said i've never been inconsistent with any of my opinions on Iraq. But where have I been inconsistent? Of course my opinions have changed over the years, as probably have everyone else's, but nothing radical like from being anti-war to this "if you are not pro-war, you don't support the troops" crap.
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Old 01-31-2008, 06:20 AM   #78
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Originally posted by Infinitum98


What video? And no matter what he said in the video, if you think he is an idiot, he is nowhere in hell as much of an idiot as the other Republicans and their foreign policy strategies.


He can't possibly be all things to all people, sure he is non-interventionist (he wants to pull out of the UN, fine), he opposes the War on Drugs (great) but he also thinks Don't Ask Don't Tell is a good policy and puts civil rights issues as state rights (for instance Sodomy Laws). Is it possible that a libertarian could see the rights and liberties of individual citizens of a country trumping opressive laws made in the name of states rights; individual sexual liberties trumping state discrimination (not only sexuality but race and religiousity as well).

He raises important issues but at the same time he pulls in the tinfoil hat crowd as well as the palaeocons; attacking him for the people that he gets support from is simply ad hominem but the reasons that they support him can be quite revealing (and at the extreme there are the real bigots who see anti-federalism as the best way to pursue their social agenda - not everybody in America is fortunate enough to live in a blue state, Jesusland would be feesible).

The other problems I have with Paulians are their poll-spamming (the real reason why online support exceeds voter turnout) and making him into a single issue candidate (he opposed Iraq - so what? How is he going to abolish the Federal Reserve and restore the gold standard? How strong is his commitment to restoring Letters of the Marque and Reprisal (which I think is a legitimate idea that deserves robust debate)).
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Old 01-31-2008, 08:17 AM   #79
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I'm sad because Edwards dropped out.
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:06 AM   #80
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Reminds me of all the Democrats who tried to explain why they were so wrong about the results of the 1991 Gulf War that they opposed. 2008 may be a year filled with many reports of "luck" and other types of excuses for success's that some pundits claimed would never happen.


yeah, it seems like pretty much everything in here reminds you of one of the Gulf Wars. no matter the topic, you always come back to some entirely unrelated point where there's no connection whatsoever to the original post.

but keep it up!
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:10 AM   #81
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Originally posted by Strongbow


Is that how you also feel about the nearly 500 Americans that have died serving in Afghanistan, that "Bush killed them"?


yes.

and i say that for you, because you, and ONLY you, think that Iraq and Afghanistan are exactly the same thing.

so, to keep it simple, yes.

but, in reality, it's more complex than that, one being a war that was pretty much deemed a necessary response to 9-11 right up until we diverted resources away from Afghanistan when they had OBL cornered in the Tora Bora Mountains in December of 2001.

Iraq never, ever should have happened, and had there been any other president in office, Iraq would never, ever have happened, certainly not in the ass backwards bone-headed arrogant wasteful careless and destructive manner that it did.

that is Bush's war. only Bush felt this was worth going to war over.

but if you'd like to belive eth same thing about Afghanistan, go right ahead.

keep it simple.
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:11 AM   #82
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Originally posted by Infinitum98


Yea, he was. They are both Muslim, and both are anti-U.S., hence they must be involved together in 9/11, right?


one was a socialist secularist, the other a religious fundamentalist.

one wanted nothing to do with the other.
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Old 01-31-2008, 11:08 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

and had there been any other president in office, Iraq would never
How can you be so sure? Crystal ball?

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
only Bush felt this was worth going to war over.
What are you talking about? Most people thought this war was justified. Most Americans did at the time. Most members of Congress did at the time- or at least until things started going bad and they backed away from their vote.
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Old 01-31-2008, 11:28 AM   #84
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Originally posted by 2861U2


How can you be so sure? Crystal ball?



i'm sure.


Quote:
What are you talking about? Most people thought this war was justified. Most Americans did at the time. Most members of Congress did at the time- or at least until things started going bad and they backed away from their vote.

no, no, no.

Americans thought the war was "justified" under the premise that SH had WMDs and was going to give them to "terrorists" and float a bomb up the east river and lower the upper east side. THAT is how the case was made to the American people -- fear of Saddam's weapons capacities, and don't let anybody tell you any different. variations on this theme were made to different audiences, but look at ANY of Condi's and Cheney's and Rumsfeld's speeches from 2002-3, and all you will find are references to Saddam's WMD capacities and "mushroom clouds" and "9-11."

the WMDs turned out to be bogus. totally false. and the American public was manipulated and the hurt and fear and sadness of 9-11 was ruthlessly manipulated to get the country into a war that was always only about oil. just talk to STING, he'll tell you it's only about the oil. but oil would never, ever have garnered the administration enough support to invade, as most Americans would be fine sending soldiers to defend *us* but they would not be fine sending their kids to die to defend *oil*.

the deterioration of the security situation due to the total absence of post-war planing, total incompetence of the Bush administration, and the on-going civil war between the Sunnis and the Shia just compound the original dissatisfaction with the war which started with the realization that the American public had been lied to, that WMDs were a fantasy, the books were cooked, and that this has been the greatest failure of intelligence in our lifetimes.

you can say "Germany and France agreed with the intelligence," which is only partially true. everyone thought that Saddam had WMDs. that is true. but there was no agreement on the success of containment, or the success of UN weapons inspectors who were pulled out of Iraq in order for the US to invade. and, finally, there was NO agreement on the "actionable" nature of the intelligence. it is not a science. some intelligence is better than others. and you act on the best intelligence there is, you don't shape intelligence to support whatever you've already decided the action is going to be.
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:19 PM   #85
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"Nancy Reagan for McCain, top source tells Drudge: She adores him, and is fully supporting him in her private life. She will not publicly endorse."
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:22 PM   #86
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Originally posted by 2861U2

What are you talking about? Most people thought this war was justified. Most Americans did at the time. Most members of Congress did at the time- or at least until things started going bad and they backed away from their vote.
Spin, spin, spin...

Most fell for it.
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:49 PM   #87
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Obama most liberal senator:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...t_liberal.html
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:55 PM   #88
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Top Al-Qaeda Commander in Afghanistan Killed:


CAIRO, Egypt — One Al Qaeda's top commanders in Afghanistan, Abu Laith al-Libi was killed according to a Web site used by militant groups, reported the Washington-based SITE Institute which monitors the internet.

While the claim could not be verified independently, the announcement appeared as a banner in a section of the Web site reserved for affiliated militant organizations.

"As the banner was posted ... by a webmaster of the forum, it seems as if the announcement of his death has been confirmed to the forum administrators," noted SITE in its statement.

Al-Libi was an Al Qaeda training camp leader who has appeared in many Internet videos and who the U.S. says was likely behind the Feb. 2007 bombing at the U.S. base at Bagram during a visit by U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney that killed 23 people.

A knowledgeable Western official said that "it appears at this point that Al-Libi has met his demise," but declined to talk about the circumstances. "It was a major success in taking one of the top terrorists in the world off the street," the official said. He added that the death occurred "within the last few days."

Al-Libi was a key link between the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

He was listed among the 12 most-wanted men the U.S. offered a US$200,000 reward for five.

Pakistani counterterrorism officials say al-Libi — "the Libyan" in Arabic language — has served as an Al Qaeda spokesman and commander in eastern Afghanistan. They say they have no information on his current whereabouts.

Al Qaeda's media wing, al-Sahab, released a video interview with a bearded man identified as al-Libi in spring 2007. In it, the militant accused Shiite Muslims of fighting alongside American forces in Iraq, and claimed that mujahideen would crush foreign troops in Afghanistan. Al-Libi made no reference to the Feb. 27 attack at Bagram.

Maj. Chris Belcher, a spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan, said last year that al-Libi was a guerrilla fighter "knowledgeable about how to conduct suicide bombing missions and how to inflict the most civilian casualties." He had probably directed "one or more terror training camps."

In a tacit admission that terror camps have continued to operate on Afghan soil since the Taliban regime's ouster more than five years ago, Belcher said al-Libi had been the subject of "especially close focus" by U.S. intelligence since 2005, when U.S. forces destroyed a militant training camp believed set up by al-Libi in the eastern province of Khost.

But he described al-Libi as "transient," moving where the Libyan thinks he can count on support.

"Terrorists like al-Libi use the rugged terrain of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border to conceal themselves while they plan violent insurgent activities. Our sources indicate that Abu Laith al-Libi favors tribal regions, including North Waziristan," Belcher said.

North Waziristan is a lawless enclave in neighboring Pakistan where last year the Pakistani government reached a peace deal with pro-Taliban militants. U.S. officials have since expressed concern that Al Qaeda could be regrouping in Pakistan's border zone.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:32 PM   #89
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Obama's speaking here tomorrow night. Too bad I'll be out of town. It would have been interesting to see how I felt about him in person. I definitely would have gotten tickets, too, since because of my work I was included on an early invitation list. Oh well. I'll have to hear about it from my colleagues.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:44 PM   #90
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Aw too bad you won't get to see him. Whether you like him or not, seeing him speak in person is quite an experience.

I'll be seeing him, and possibly Hillary as well Feb 9
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