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Old 07-24-2008, 07:24 PM   #886
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That's because Europe and Europeans finally have the candidate they have always wanted. Since the beginning of time Europe has promoted socialism, and now America has the socialist candidate if there ever was one. No wonder everyone overseas is tripping over themselves over him.
Well, now we know how the Republicans are going to try to frame this trip. . .you heard it here first.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:25 PM   #887
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And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness.

The Child was blessed in looks and intellect. Scion of a simple family, offspring of a miraculous union, grandson of a typical white person and an African peasant. And yea, as he grew, the Child walked in the path of righteousness, with only the occasional detour into the odd weed and a little blow.

When he was twelve years old, they found him in the temple in the City of Chicago, arguing the finer points of community organisation with the Prophet Jeremiah and the Elders. And the Elders were astonished at what they heard and said among themselves: “Verily, who is this Child that he opens our hearts and minds to the audacity of hope?”

In the great Battles of Caucus and Primary he smote the conniving Hillary, wife of the deposed King Bill the Priapic and their barbarian hordes of Working Class Whites.

And so it was, in the fullness of time, before the harvest month of the appointed year, the Child ventured forth - for the first time - to bring the light unto all the world.

He travelled fleet of foot and light of camel, with a small retinue that consisted only of his loyal disciples from the tribe of the Media. He ventured first to the land of the Hindu Kush, where the

Taleban had harboured the viper of al-Qaeda in their bosom, raining terror on all the world.

And the Child spake and the tribes of Nato immediately loosed the Caveats that had previously bound them. And in the great battle that ensued the forces of the light were triumphant. For as long as the

Child stood with his arms raised aloft, the enemy suffered great blows and the threat of terror was no more.

From there he went forth to Mesopotamia where he was received by the great ruler al-Maliki, and al-Maliki spake unto him and blessed his Sixteen Month Troop Withdrawal Plan even as the imperial warrior Petraeus tried to destroy it.

And lo, in Mesopotamia, a miracle occurred. Even though the Great Surge of Armour that the evil Bush had ordered had been a terrible mistake, a waste of vital military resources and doomed to end in disaster, the Child's very presence suddenly brought forth a great victory for the forces of the light.

And the Persians, who saw all this and were greatly fearful, longed to speak with the Child and saw that the Child was the bringer of peace. At the mention of his name they quickly laid aside their intrigues and beat their uranium swords into civil nuclear energy ploughshares.

From there the Child went up to the city of Jerusalem, and entered through the gate seated on an ass. The crowds of network anchors who had followed him from afar cheered “Hosanna” and waved great palm fronds and strewed them at his feet.

In Jerusalem and in surrounding Palestine, the Child spake to the Hebrews and the Arabs, as the Scripture had foretold. And in an instant, the lion lay down with the lamb, and the Israelites and Ishmaelites ended their long enmity and lived for ever after in peace.

As word spread throughout the land about the Child's wondrous works, peoples from all over flocked to hear him; Hittites and Abbasids; Obamacons and McCainiacs; Cameroonians and Blairites.

And they told of strange and wondrous things that greeted the news of the Child's journey. Around the world, global temperatures began to decline, and the ocean levels fell and the great warming was over.

The Great Prophet Algore of Nobel and Oscar, who many had believed was the anointed one, smiled and told his followers that the Child was the one generations had been waiting for.

And there were other wonderful signs. In the city of the Street at the Wall, spreads on interbank interest rates dropped like manna from Heaven and rates on credit default swaps fell to the ground as dead birds from the almond tree, and the people who had lived in foreclosure were able to borrow again.

Black gold gushed from the ground at prices well below $140 per barrel. In hospitals across the land the sick were cured even though they were uninsured. And all because the Child had pronounced it.

And this is the testimony of one who speaks the truth and bears witness to the truth so that you might believe. And he knows it is the truth for he saw it all on CNN and the BBC and in the pages of The New York Times.

Then the Child ventured forth from Israel and Palestine and stepped onto the shores of the Old Continent. In the land of Queen Angela of Merkel, vast multitudes gathered to hear his voice, and he preached to them at length.

But when he had finished speaking his disciples told him the crowd was hungry, for they had had nothing to eat all the hours they had waited for him.

And so the Child told his disciples to fetch some food but all they had was five loaves and a couple of frankfurters. So he took the bread and the frankfurters and blessed them and told his disciples to feed the multitudes. And when all had eaten their fill, the scraps filled twelve baskets.

Thence he travelled west to Mount Sarkozy. Even the beauteous Princess Carla of the tribe of the Bruni was struck by awe and she was great in love with the Child, but he was tempted not.

On the Seventh Day he walked across the Channel of the Angles to the ancient land of the hooligans. There he was welcomed with open arms by the once great prophet Blair and his successor, Gordon the Leper, and his successor, David the Golden One.

And suddenly, with the men appeared the archangel Gabriel and the whole host of the heavenly choir, ranks of cherubim and seraphim, all praising God and singing: “Yes, We Can.”
He ventured forth to bring light to the world | Gerard Baker - Times Online

Not entirely out of place
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:30 PM   #888
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:39 PM   #889
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Even his handwriting is cool!


















run with it, deep!
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:42 PM   #890
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A Message to American Voters
By Senator Barack Obama (D-IL)

My Fellow Americans:

You may have read recent news reports that suggest I have modified my position regarding the redeployment of American military personnel in Iraq. Unfortunately, these reports have been the source of much confusion and anxiety among the millions of voters who have supported my campaign, and I would like to take this opportunity to address their concerns.

Let me be crystal clear: if elected president, my first act will be to call for the immediate withdrawal of all American troops from Iraq....
...
Or will I? As is obvious to all but the most deluded HuffPo retard, the surge in Iraq has produced dramatic improvements in security throughout Iraq, and the roots of a stable pro-American democracy....
...
See what I mean? That previous paragraph should be a signal to all of you in the progressive community just how committed I am to an immediate troop withdrawal. If that's the kind of shameless bellicose jingoism it takes to temporarily fool the neocons and extra-chromosome Jebus tards, I will do it....
...
And that there is exactly the kind of transparent commie crap that left wing lunatics eat up....
...
In conclusion, this should make it clear to the broad moderate middle mainstream of independent American voters that I am willing to reach out to both sides of the contentious war debate, and forge a new national consensus based on unity. Together, we can build a new era of hope, and bring an end to politics of cynicism.
iowahawk: A Clarification
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:43 PM   #891
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Oh, we're not talking about Maliki anymore? With this attempt to change discussion from Maliki's position in the Der Speigel interview to whatever the National Security Advisor once said (oooh!) I'm glad to see that you now implicitly acknowledge that Maliki agrees with Obama's basic position.
Who do you think advises Maliki on these issues and is the expert in charge of Iraq's security needs? Maliki has not spoken at length or in the level of detail that the national security advisor has on what his governments position is on the future of US forces in Iraq.

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30 pages ago when I and others got sick of Strongbow's endless unsubstantiated claims and called him out on it, he finally bothered to look up the Foreign Affairs article. I could ask for a source on the 2007 spending bill claims too, but that's all a distraction from the real issue: Barack Obama is currently running for President.
I can post the spending bills and show that they did not have any prerequisites or conditions to start immediately withdrawing US troops from Iraq, but what would be really interesting is if you could find one, just one source that shows that Barack Obama clearly has prerequisites and conditions that have to be met BEFORE he would withdraw any non-surge brigades from Iraq.




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Barack Obama is currently running for President on a plan for Iraq which is not exclusively time-based. This is undeniable. Arguing about whatever he advocated earlier is irrelevant, because he has a plan NOW that he wants to enact
Ah, so he is moving towards the position that Bush has had the past five years? In the Foreign Affairs article, the only thing one could point to as a condition was that he said that he might suspend the withdrawal if the Iraqi government met all 18 benchmarks with the 16 month timeframe he has planned to withdraw all US combat brigades. But there were NO prerequisites or conditions for starting the withdrawal, which he said would begin immediately. If his plan has really changed which he just spent time explaining a couple of weeks ago that it had not, what is his new plan that has multiple prerequisites and conditions that must be met before any withdrawal?


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He is not advocating that plan. He might have (for the sake of argument). But past tense is not present tense. Maliki is in agreement with Obama's position.
Maliki, Bush, McCain, and the US military are all for a conditions based withdrawal. If you say Obama is for that policy now as well, thats great, but no one has presented any evidence that is the case.

Obama openly admitted that General Patraeus does not agree with the plan that Barack Obama presented him. General Patraeus wants a conditions based withdrawal.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:57 PM   #892
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so ... this op-ed is to have us believe that the gaping 7 month difference between Obama's 16 months and the Iraqi government's "by the end of 2010" means that they don't support Obama's plan?

this is an absolutely preposterous distinction.

if you want another, we can note that "by the end of the year" does not actually mean "the end of 2010," so this gaping 7 month difference could actually be less should things go better than expected.
Once again, the key distinction between Obama's plan and everyone elses is this:

It would also be conditioned on the readiness of Iraqi forces, the same linkage that Gen. Petraeus seeks.


What conditions and prerequisites does Obama have before he would start to withdraw non-surge combat brigades?


Maliki's national security advisor stated the following:

The Iraqi military must first assume security responsibilty in all of Iraq's 18 provinces, they have done this in 10. Once that is completed, then US force would redeploy from any cities they were still in, but remain in the country for the next 3 to 5 years, during which time, the security situation would be reviewed every 6 months. He has also mentioned that he did not think Iraq would be ready to handle internal security within Iraq until 2012 and estimated that they would need help with defending the country from external threats until 2018.
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:04 PM   #893
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how was his judgment in 2002?
Terrible! He was in favor of leaving one of the worst dictators and biggest threats to US and global security in power indefinitely despite the fact that every tool short of a full scale invasion had been used, including limited military force, and failed to enforce the UN Security Council Resolutions vital to the security of the region and the world.
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:18 PM   #894
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Senator Obama's own failed legislation wanted a firm 16-month withdrawal beginning in early 2007, with no Surge, when things were looking particularly dark for the U.S. and Iraq. He still wants that same 16 month withdrawal today, post Surge, when things are looking quite a bit brighter for the U.S. and Iraq.

Consistency? I suppose. Obama's nuance reigns supreme!
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:18 PM   #895
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Funny. I can't believe they put McCain in that stair lift thing

Obama Quest - The Holy Land | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

I wonder if McCain is rethinking his "Hey, I'll just dare him to go to Iraq" idea right about now.
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:35 PM   #896
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one of the [...] biggest threats to US and global security
False.
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:39 PM   #897
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is this a pattern? or is "the surge" whatever we want to call anything that hasn't been a disaster? we are now to credit *everything* that happened to the influx of 30,000 more troops, even before they got there, lest we disrespect our brave men and women in uniform?

Its true that the beginning of the Anbar Awakening was roughly in mid-2006 and some could argue even before that, but the casualty figures for those months in 2006 do not show a meaningful decrease in violence. The large more sustained decreases in violence started to occur in the middle of 2007 once the last surge combat brigade started to arrive on the ground, and the number of US troops peaked at 175,000 by November 2007.

Combined Iraqi Security Force and Civilian Casualties July 2006 through July 2008 according to iCasualties: Iraq Coalition Casualty Count

Jul 2006 1,280 Start of Anbar Awakening
Aug 2006 2,966
Sep 2006 3,539
Oct 2006 1,539
Nov 2006 1,864
Dec 2006 1,752
Jan 2007 1,802
Feb 2007 3,014 Feb. 14 elements of first Surge Brigade start to arrive.
Mar 2007 2,977
Apr 2007 1,821
May 2007 1,980
June 2007 1,345
July 2007 1,690
Aug 2007 1,674 Early August, last Surge Brigade starts to arrive.
Sep 2007 848
Oct 2007 679
Nov 2007 560 Start of November, US military reaches peak surge number.
Dec 2007 548
Jan 2008 554
Feb 2008 674
Mar 2008 980
Apr 2008 744
May 2008 506
June 2008 450
July 2008 282


Coalition combat deaths July 2006 to July 2008:

Jul 2006 41 Start of Anbar Awakening
Aug 2006 59
Sep 2006 65
Oct 2006 102
Nov 2006 67
Dec 2006 98
Jan 2007 80
Feb 2007 75 Feb. 14 elements of first Surge Brigade start to arrive.
Mar 2007 72
Apr 2007 107
May 2007 123
Jun 2007 99
Jul 2007 73
Aug 2007 60 Early August, last Surge Brigade starts to arrive.
Sep 2007 44
Oct 2007 30
Nov 2007 30 Start of November, US military reaches peak surge number.
Dec 2007 14
Jan 2008 35
Feb 2008 26
Mar 2008 37
Apr 2008 42
May 2008 17
Jun 2008 24
Jul 2008 7
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:50 PM   #898
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False.

Ok, can you name another leader of a country in 2003 that had previously invaded and attacked FOUR different countries unprovoked, threatened the planets vital energy supply with siezure or sabotage, used WMD more times than any other leader in history, had failed to account for 1,000 liters of Anthrax, 500 pounds of Sarin Gas, 500 pounds of mustard gas, 20,000 bio chem capable shells, was in violation of 17 different UN Security Council Resolutions, in violation of the 1991 Gulf War Ceacefire Agreement, was withholding important WMD related research and programs from the world, had a military force of 430,000 troops, 3,000 tanks, over 2,000 armored personal carriers, over 2,000 artillery pieces, over 300 combat aircraft, in possession of short range ballistic missiles with ranges that were in violation of the 1991 Gulf War Ceacefire agreement and was continuing to not cooperate with the rest of the world on these serious matters?
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:06 PM   #899
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Even his handwriting is cool!




run with it, deep!




I thought about using ^ as my the signature on all my posts.


I figured then you might include me on the list of people that have shown a well-informed grasp of the situation, good analytical skills and well thought out views that don't rely on information barked out by propagandistic, sensationalist loudmouths.


But, I think the more considerate thing to do,
is to offer it up for you.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:10 PM   #900
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but what would be really interesting is if you could find one, just one source that shows that Barack Obama clearly has prerequisites and conditions that have to be met BEFORE he would withdraw any non-surge brigades from Iraq.
Non sequitur.

What does Obama's plan of immediately planning to withdraw, with respect to ground conditions mean? How long certain troops remain will vary slightly- for example, soldiers in a secure region of Iraq would be pulled out sooner then soldiers in a more volatile area. Or, if a province needs security in the run up to an election, troops might stay there until the election passed. If Obama's plan was solely time based then he would simply ignore that circumstance and pull the troops out because their time on the Master Cheat Sheet of Troop Withdrawal was up. These are but two in a wealth of potential options in Barack's plan.

Versus George's. Less violence? Good, most troops should stay to keep it that way. More violence? Good, that's why we have troops there! Iraqis don't want us there? Uh...permanent bases?
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