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Old 07-10-2008, 05:30 PM   #526
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Well played.

But you see, those immigrants aren't the problem. It's just those damn hispanics, amirite?

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Old 07-10-2008, 05:41 PM   #527
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I don't care where you're from. Learn English before you come here.
How many of the Irish, German, Scandanavian, Italian etc immigrants who came here in the 19th an early 20th century learned English back in their countries before coming here? Were there big English language classes back in Europe for them all to take and become fluent before shipping over here? Why on EARTH would it be any different for people coming from Latin American countries?

And why wouldn't you be "optimistic" about immigrants eventually learning English? How would your brief interactiions with "hispanics" who you "come to find out" provide you with enough evidence to conclude that they'll "never" learn English? I deal with ESL students and their families all the time (granted they are not Latino, so maybe that makes the difference, huh?) and I'll tell you that they all want to learn English. I'll also tell you that learning English is extraordinarily difficult and the older you are the harder it is to learn (I've heard that English is the second-hardest language in the world to learn--Chinese is the hardest). Often times truly fluent English really doesn't occur until the second generation--the kids born in the United States. So your newly immigrated adult may never learn to speak English well, but their kids will.
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:57 PM   #528
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(I've heard that English is the second-hardest language in the world to learn--Chinese is the hardest).

Wow, never heard that. But may be. There is a lot of time forms in English I'e yet to learn. I just write and speak by intuition.

I think one difficulty with English is that the vocals aren't pronounced the same way in different words. Every letter can be pronounced in dozen different ways you first have to learn. A common joke here is about German tourists that have to learn not to ask for "Where is zeh bitch" when they are asking directions for the beach.
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:58 PM   #529
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“You’re looking at a young couple that’s just a few years out of debt,” Obama said. “See, because, we went to those good schools, and we didn’t have trust funds. I’m still waiting for Barack’s trust fund. Especially after I heard that Dick Cheney was s’posed to be a relative or something. Give us something here!”
I have no trust fund.
I have been working since I was 15.
I now have a decent size estate.


I am the President of a non-Partisan citywide residents group organized to promote the common good and general welfare of the community. This is accomplished through:

Recognizing the people who have a positive impact on the community
• Taking positive action to inform residents of the issues impacting the community.
• Celebrating the good things that happen in the community.


Last night at one of our monthly meetings we presented a college scholarship to a deserving high school senior.



That is Jo (our Scholarship Chair) and the recipient.

R. Sanchez maintained an 4.0 + gpa with advanced placement courses, volunteered hundreds of hours, worked two jobs, and is the first person to graduate high school (ever) in his family. He will be majoring in Mechanical Engineering at one of our CA State Universities. He is bi-lingual, he was born in this country, his parents were not.


He does not think it is a "mean" country.
He is not asking to put his hands in Dick Cheney's pockets, or anyone else's.
He is only wanting a chance to work hard and earn a better life for himself and others.
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Old 07-10-2008, 06:52 PM   #530
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I think Sen Obama was just trying to be funny, and they both worked hard to get through college. They only wanted that chance too. I hardly think they believe it's a "mean" country, they are both always saying that their lives would only be possible in this country.
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:48 PM   #531
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R. Sanchez maintained an 4.0 + gpa with advanced placement courses, volunteered hundreds of hours, worked two jobs, and is the first person to graduate high school (ever) in his family. He will be majoring in Mechanical Engineering at one of our CA State Universities. He is bi-lingual, he was born in this country, his parents were not.

He does not think it is a "mean" country.
He is not asking to put his hands in Dick Cheney's pockets, or anyone else's.
He is only wanting a chance to work hard and earn a better life for himself and others.
Sounds like he shares some of the same values as the Presidential candidate who said last month...
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You know, sometimes I'll go to an eighth-grade graduation and there's all that pomp and circumstance and gowns and flowers. And I think to myself, it's just eighth grade. To really compete, they need to graduate high school, and then they need to graduate college, and they probably need a graduate degree too. An eighth-grade education doesn't cut it today. Let's give them a handshake and tell them to get their butts back in the library! ...All B’s? Is that the highest grade? It’s great that you can get a B, but you can get a better grade. It’s great that you’ve got a job, but you can get a better job...

We should take all of these steps to build a strong foundation for our children. But we should also know that even if we do; even if we meet our obligations as fathers and parents; even if Washington does its part too, we will still face difficult challenges in our lives. There will still be days of struggle and heartache. The rains will still come and the winds will still blow. And that is why the final lesson we must learn as fathers is also the greatest gift we can pass on to our children--and that is the gift of hope. I'm not talking about an idle hope that's little more than blind optimism or willful ignorance of the problems we face. I'm talking about hope as that spirit inside us that insists, despite all evidence to the contrary, that something better is waiting for us if we're willing to work for it and fight for it. If we are willing to believe.
I wonder how Michelle Obama made it from from the South Side of Chicago to Princeton and Harvard? Bet she whined and begged for handouts from mush-hearted deserving rich folks all the way, rather than working hard to earn a better life for herself and others. Typical.
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Last night at one of our monthly meetings we presented a college scholarship to a deserving high school senior.
And why does he get a charity handout? Why can't he scrimp and save and work his way to success himself--like you did? That's the American way! Tuition, schmuition...cry me a river. A little delayed gratification never hurt anybody. What a nation of whiners we've become.



Oh, and...
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McCain's campaign disavowed Gramm's remarks, saying in a statement: "John McCain travels the country every day talking to Americans who are hurting, feeling pain at the pump and worrying about how they'll pay their mortgage. That's why he has a realistic plan to deliver immediate relief at the gas pump, grow our economy, and put Americans back to work."
Commie.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:16 PM   #532
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I do believe that's the most animated post I've ever seen from you, yolland.

I like!

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Old 07-10-2008, 08:32 PM   #533
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Is McCain really this clueless? | Philly | 07/10/2008

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Is McCain really this clueless?

It's always worth taking a break from vacation to behold the spectacle of a politician blowing off his own foot.

John McCain this week has uttered a couple whoppers that are so egregious, it prompts one to wonder whether he is subconsciously trying to sabotage his own campaign, or whether he is as verbally inept as the president he seeks to replace, or whether he simply lacks the most fundamental knowledge that is required of any Oval Office denizen.

The topic was Social Security. During a Monday town hall event (and bear in mind that he thinks he excels best in town hall events), the presumptive Republican nominee stated: "Americans have got to understand that we are paying present-day retirees with the taxes paid by young workers in America today. And that's a disgrace. It's an absolute disgrace..."

One day later, on CNN, McCain said virtually the thing while railing against the Social Security program: "Let's describe it for what it is. (Today's workers) pay their taxes, and right now their taxes are going to pay the retirement of present-day retirees. That's why it's broken..."

We all know that McCain would prefer to spend his time talking about national security and about how Iraq is the central front in the war on terror. We're all aware by now of his public admission that he is a tad knowledge-challenged about the biggest domestic issue of all, the economy. But we might arguably expect that the presidential nominee of a major party would at least have a working knowledge of the most popular domestic program since the New Deal.

Because here's the thing: What McCain describes as "an absolute disgrace" and "broken" are the rules that have governed the Social Security program since its inception 73 years ago. Current workers are always taxed, via the payroll levy, to support the retirement security of current seniors. That's how the pay-as-you-go policy has always worked. That's not a "disgrace," that's the law.

There are several possible ways to interpret McCain's remarks, none of them very flattering:

1. He's truly ignorant of how Social Security works, which, among other things, is not the best way to attract senior voters, or any voters who'd like to believe that a guy auditioning to run the country is at least minimally in touch with reality.

2. He does know how Social Security works (it's hard to imagine he doesn't, not after two decades in Washington), but somehow failed to articulate whatever he really intended to say - just as he has done on other recent occasions, such as when he twice confused the Sunnis and the Shiites (which Brit Hume of Fox News defended as a possible "senior moment").

3. He actually does believe that the fundamental precepts of Social Security are an "absolute disgrace," and wants to overhaul them.

It has long been an axiom that any Republican seeking to overhaul Social Security is doomed to suffer political damage; witness President Bush, who drained his '05 capital while stumping in vain for partial privatization. And it has long been an axiom that any Republican who verbally disses the program (inadvertently or intentionally) is doomed to suffer political damage; witness Barry Goldwater, the 1964 presidential nominee who was slaughtered on election day in part because he was on record as having stated, "I think Social Security ought to be voluntary. This is the only definite position I have on it."

Yesterday, a McCain spokesman tried to cover the candidate's tracks (they've been mopping up a lot lately) by stating after the fact what McCain might have been intending to convey: "The disgrace is our failure to fix the long-run imbalance in Social Security - a failure of leadership evidenced by our willingness to kick the problem to the next generation of leaders. He's also describing the looming and increasing demographic pressures confronting the Social Security system and Washington's utter failure to address it."

But that's not what McCain described as a "disgrace." Instead, he targeted the underlying premise of the program itself. Either he did this because he is inarticulate; or because he really doesn't know how it works; or because he's an idealogue who wants to undo the best of the New Deal. Whatever the reason, the Demcrats and the senior groups now have him on video. As Barry Goldwater discovered, while trying unsuccessfully to distance himself from his own words, that kind of talk can kill a presidential candidacy.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:41 PM   #534
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There goes his age group vote...
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:41 PM   #535
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deep, kudos to you for being pro-active in your community. As you know, I'm sure, it does make a difference.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:22 PM   #536
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thanks
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:58 PM   #537
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Fair enough; I doubt anyone in here considers community involvement anything but worthwhile and important, especially since many of us are involved with multiple such groups and activities on a regular basis. That doesn't make it any less of a disingenuous cheap shot to blithely dismiss Michelle Obama's standard campaign trail populism as the example par excellence of Phil Gramm's alleged American penchant for "whining." The notion that she seriously expects (or feels she needs) any leg-up from "Dick Cheney's pockets" is silly, and so is the idea that, unlike 'Me', she knows nothing about hard work, saving up, taking responsibility for others, or for that matter, engaging in community service on behalf of those for whom the college scholarship never came through, the secure retirement after decades of continuous hard work didn't pan out, the minimal health insurance they were able to afford didn't cover the midlife health crisis that no-one ever plans on, etc. etc. Why would any of us be involved in community service to begin with if we didn't recognize that all these obstacles really do exist, that the most "deserving" people sometimes fail to surmount them, that there's a moral obligation to be aware of your good fortunes as well as your just rewards, and therefore to do what you can to pay it forward here and there?
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:39 PM   #538
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i had hoped that we were going to get a strikingly mature presidential race with Obama, someone who proved himself not only above but able to beat Clintonian politics, and with McCain, clearly the only adult amongst the GOP candidates.

it seems i was foolish. i see the McCain campaign moving into desperation mode, trying as hard as they can to paint Obama as "foreign" or "not-American" in the way that the Bushies tried successfully (and not without some unforced errors involving windsurfing) to make John Kerry appear "French." and in this context, it's fairly explicitly racist.

we'll see if the Obamacons strike back. and if they do, be prepared for surrogates to question McCain's sanity.

worked for Bush in 2000.
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:40 PM   #539
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I have no trust fund.
I have been working since I was 15.
I now have a decent size estate.


the first two characteristics are shared by most of us (i started lifeguarding when i was 15).

what's made you successful, and not others?
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:14 AM   #540
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the first two characteristics are shared by most of us (i started lifeguarding when i was 15).

what's made you successful, and not others?
Ditto on the first two (I started cleaning an Olympic size pool at the age of 15).

What made him succesful and not others? I'll let deep speak for himself, but I can say that my choice to become a missionary teacher on a tiny island in the Pacific probably didn't do much for my net worth.

I currently have an estate of exactly no size at all. (I think my most expensive asset at this point in time is either my couch or my ipod!).

But the funny thing is I don't feel unsuccesful at all!
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