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Old 07-08-2008, 07:30 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
do we really need to rehash the past few pages of this thread?

have you read a single post other than your own?
You should be asking yourself that. I'm not the one who is confused about the positions that most Democrats have taken on the war in the past 18 months.

The position I have always advocated, and the position that the Bush administration, McCain and the United States military have supported, is that the nation building and counterinsurgency process under way in Iraq must continue until Iraq is developed and stable enough to handle the situation on their own. Troops should only be withdrawn when conditions on the ground warrent their withdrawal.

That has NOT been the position of most Democrats, posters on this message board, or Barack Obama over the past 18 months.

If one claims that Iraq is a "Civil War" that the United States military cannot help resolve or stop and should not be involved in stopping and should leave, but now is saying they are for a withdrawal that has as a prerequisite,
successfully resolving the conflict or "Civil War" and stabilzing the country, then they have in fact reversed their position on Iraq.
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:52 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
You should be asking yourself that. I'm not the one who is confused about the positions that most Democrats have taken on the war in the past 18 months.

The position I have always advocated, and the position that the Bush administration, McCain and the United States military have supported, is that the nation building and counterinsurgency process under way in Iraq must continue until Iraq is developed and stable enough to handle the situation on their own. Troops should only be withdrawn when conditions on the ground warrent their withdrawal.

That has NOT been the position of most Democrats, posters on this message board, or Barack Obama over the past 18 months.

If one claims that Iraq is a "Civil War" that the United States military cannot help resolve or stop and should not be involved in stopping and should leave, but now is saying they are for a withdrawal that has as a prerequisite,
successfully resolving the conflict or "Civil War" and stabilzing the country, then they have in fact reversed their position on Iraq.
Either you are deliberately ignoring the nuance found in the posts on this topic (particulary those by Irvine) or you are completely unaware of the nuance in his (and, I'd suggest, Obama's as well) views.

As you seem like a pretty smart fellow, I'm putting my money on the former.

You've got a story and you're sticking to it.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:00 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Either you are deliberately ignoring the nuance found in the posts on this topic (particulary those by Irvine) or you are completely unaware of the nuance in his (and, I'd suggest, Obama's as well) views.

As you seem like a pretty smart fellow, I'm putting my money on the former.

You've got a story and you're sticking to it.
QFT

This is why I gave up a long time ago...
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Old 07-09-2008, 01:35 AM   #469
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[q]Associated Press, July 8

PITTSBURGH — Cindy McCain's jab to her husband's back came a second too late Tuesday to keep him from making a wisecrack about the health impact of Iran's main import from the United States: cigarettes.

Republican presidential candidate John McCain was asked about an Associated Press report that $158 million in cigarettes have been shipped to Iran during George W. Bush's presidency despite restrictions on U.S. exports to that country.

"Maybe that's a way of killing them," McCain told reporters, smiling as he waited for a cheesesteak sandwich at the Primanti Brothers restaurant. His wife, sitting next to him at the counter, poked his back without looking up.

"I meant that as a joke," McCain quickly explained. "As a person who hasn't had a cigarette in 28 years," he began to say, when his wife corrected him: 29 years.

Taking a more serious tone, McCain said, "I'd like to look into" details of exports to Iran. "This is the first that I've heard about it," he said.[/q]
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Old 07-09-2008, 01:41 AM   #470
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well, that is just one more flip - flop

killing them with tobacco now


previously he was for "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran"
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:25 AM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Either you are deliberately ignoring the nuance found in the posts on this topic (particulary those by Irvine) or you are completely unaware of the nuance in his (and, I'd suggest, Obama's as well) views.

As you seem like a pretty smart fellow, I'm putting my money on the former.

You've got a story and you're sticking to it.
Where is the nuance in claiming that Barack Obama did not vote for a spending bill to immediately start withdrawing US combat brigades from Iraq without any prerequisites for development and security there and set a date of March 31, 2008 to have all of the US combat brigades out of Iraq?

Barack Obama and the Democrats have consistently stated that they wanted to start immediately removing US combat brigades from Iraq with a date to have them all out by March 31, 2008. There were no prerequisites for this withdrawal to begin at all or for all US combat brigades to be out by March 31, 2008. The only thing they said might change that is if the Iraqi government and military were to meet all 18 bench marks in that small time frame, they might suspend the withdrawal which is just absurd. If your serious about helping a country develop strong security, economic and political structures and enviroments then you don't pack up and leave when your help is needed most and tell them that if they succeed in achieving these difficult task essentially on their own, that you'll stop leaving and help them with the easier task that would remain.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:50 AM   #472
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July 8, 2008
Gallup Daily: Obama 46%, McCain 44%Obama averaging a three-percentage point lead thus far in July

PRINCETON, NJ -- The nation's registered voters remain closely divided in their presidential preferences, with 46% of those interviewed in Gallup Poll Daily tracking from July 5-7 saying they will vote for Democrat Barack Obama and 44% favoring Republican John McCain.

Obama's lead has been as great as seven percentage points over the past month, but has averaged only three points thus far in July, identical to his average lead for the month of June. (To view the complete trend since March 7, 2008, click here.)

The fact that Obama has consistently held an advantage over McCain among registered voters in Gallup Poll Daily tracking since early June suggests that he could very well win the election were it held today (depending on voter turnout patterns). The important question, however, and one addressed in detail Monday on Gallup.com, is whether his consistently narrow lead at this point in mid-summer bodes well for him in November

In essence, the Gallup analysis finds that races that appear closely contested at the start of the summer tend to stay close for the duration of the campaign, up to and including Election Day. This describes the 2004, 2000, 1980, and 1960 elections.

The exceptions to this are years when, after being closely matched in early to mid-July, one of the candidates jumps into the lead following his party's national convention over the summer. In these cases -- including Bill Clinton in 1992, George H.W. Bush in 1988, and Richard Nixon in 1968 -- the candidate getting the big boost out of his convention ultimately won. -- Lydia Saad
Gallup Daily: Obama 46%, McCain 44%
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Old 07-09-2008, 06:46 AM   #473
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Where is the nuance in claiming that Barack Obama did not vote for a spending bill to immediately start withdrawing US combat brigades from Iraq without any prerequisites for development and security there and set a date of March 31, 2008 to have all of the US combat brigades out of Iraq?
Did anyone here claim that?

No?

Didn't think so.

You keep including Barack Obama "and the Democrats" as if "the Democrats" are all of one mind and one opinion. That's rather short-sighted.
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:09 AM   #474
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I don't get John McCain's alleged "humor". He's like that daffy uncle at your barbecue who makes inappropriate jokes and ends up in a corner by himself, only he's running for President.
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:35 AM   #475
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Barack Obama wants us all to learn Spanish.

YouTube - Barack Obama: Your Children Should Learn To Speak Spanish

This guy is such an idiot. Note how very few people behind him applauded.
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:46 AM   #476
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What an idiot, making a second language spoken by millions part of the normal curriculum. So stupid.
Can't believe any person would seriously consider such an embarrasingly stupid measure.
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Old 07-09-2008, 11:04 AM   #477
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What an idiot, making a second language spoken by millions part of the normal curriculum. So stupid.
Can't believe any person would seriously consider such an embarrasingly stupid measure.
Cute.

Does Obama wants us to learn Spanish to accomodate the illegals who will never learn English? Kinda sounds that way. I'm not sure why he would say "Don't worry about the immigrants, they'll learn English" when that notion is certainly debatable.
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Old 07-09-2008, 11:12 AM   #478
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First, the US doesn't have an official language, second, not every Spanish-speaking person is illegally in the US, I would guess not even the majority, third, Spanish is the second most important language in the world (though some might say that e.g. Japanese or Chinese are becoming more important), and fourth, one thing I would say would be even better than making Spanish mandatory would be to make some second language mandatory.
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Old 07-09-2008, 11:27 AM   #479
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I saw this on TV last night, I think it was MSNBC

Think Progress Librarian with ‘McCain=Bush’ sign charged with trespassing at public campaign event.

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was in Denver, CO, today for a town hall meeting. The event, at the Denver Center for the Performing Arts, was billed as “open to the public.” Yet Carol Kreck, a 61-year-old librarian carrying a “McCain=Bush” sign, was taken away by police for trespassing. A police officer told Kreck:

"You have two choices. You can keep your sign here and receive a ticket for trespassing, or you can remove the sign and stay in line and attend this town hall meeting."

Kreck received a ticket for trespassing and her court date is July 23. McCain has apparently taken a page from the Bush playbook. In 2005, the White House had three activists expelled from a Denver public forum with President Bush because it was the administration’s policy “to exclude potentially disruptive guests from Bush’s appearances nationwide.”

Video

YouTube - John McCain Kicks Librarian Out of Town Hall Event
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:06 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Barack Obama wants us all to learn Spanish.

YouTube - Barack Obama: Your Children Should Learn To Speak Spanish

This guy is such an idiot. Note how very few people behind him applauded.
Yes, let's embrace ignorance!!!
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