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Old 06-26-2008, 08:35 AM   #286
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(AP)WASHINGTON — Bob Dylan. Yo-Yo Ma. Sheryl Crow. Jay-Z. These aren't musical acts in a summer concert series: They're artists featured on Barack Obama's iPod.

"I have pretty eclectic tastes," the Democratic presidential contender said in an interview to be published in Friday's issue of Rolling Stone.

Growing up in the '70s, Obama said, he listened to the Rolling Stones, Elton John and Earth, Wind & Fire. Stevie Wonder is his musical hero from the era. The Stones' "Gimme Shelter" tops his favorites from the band.

The Illinois senator's playlist contains these musicians, along with about 30 songs from Dylan and the singer's "Blood on the Tracks" album. Jazz legends Miles Davis, John Coltrane and Charlie Parker are also in the mix.

"Actually, one of my favorites during the political season is 'Maggie's Farm,'" Obama said of one of Dylan's tracks. "It speaks to me as I listen to some of the political rhetoric."

In the song, Dylan sings about trying be himself, "but everybody wants you to be just like them."

Several musicians on Obama's iPod support his bid for the White House, including Bruce Springsteen. Earlier this month, Dylan told a British newspaper that he believes Obama is redefining politics in the United States and could deliver change to a nation in upheaval.

"I've got to say, having both Dylan and Bruce Springsteen say kind words about you is pretty remarkable," Obama said. "Those guys are icons."

Obama said he hasn't met Springsteen, but the two have talked over the phone.

"Not only do I love Bruce's music, but I just love him as a person," Obama said. "He is a guy who has never lost track of his roots, who knows who he is, who has never put on a front."

And did he address him as the Boss?

"You've got to," the candidate said.

Asked what he thought of rap, Obama said the genre has broken down barriers within the music world, though he's concerned about his daughters Malia, 9, and Sasha, 7 listening to it.

"I am troubled sometimes by the misogyny and materialism of a lot of rap lyrics," he said, "but I think the genius of the art form has shifted the culture and helped to desegregate music."

He said hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons and rappers Jay-Z and Ludacris were "great talents and great businessmen."

"It would be nice if I could have my daughters listen to their music without me worrying that they were getting bad images of themselves," he added.

Obama appears on the cover of the magazine, which endorsed him for president in March.
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Old 06-26-2008, 10:11 AM   #287
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Here's what I thought was an excellent commentary on CNN.com by Glenn Beck

Commentary: Obama no, McCain maybe - CNN.com

Commentary: Obama no, McCain maybe

NEW YORK (CNN) -- A lot of people don't believe it, but the truth is that I really don't know whom I'm going to vote for this November. It won't be Barack Obama -- he and I simply disagree on too many fundamental issues -- but it also may not be John McCain.

As much as the media and the analysts try to pigeon-hole people as having only one political ideology, the fact is that most people (at least, most "real" people), don't fit neatly into one predetermined set of political beliefs.

I'm no exception. Although I am a "conservative," I'm not a "Republican," and there's a big difference. A true Republican, or a true Democrat, is someone who puts their party above their principles and their candidate above their conscience.

But most of us (or at least those of us who live outside the Beltway) aren't like that. We're more like the mad scientist Frankenstein: We'd like to take a piece of this candidate, a touch of that one and a little slice of the one over there, mash it all together and create someone who's lines up perfectly with our values and beliefs.

Which brings me back to John McCain. Like Obama, McCain and I have fundamental differences on a host of important issues. Sure, I disagree with him less than I do with Obama, but is that really the standard we should use in choosing their candidate? Our country isn't a reality show where we simply elect whoever's left after all the backstabbing and lying is finished.

On my radio program, I talk a lot about voting for your values. But as time goes by, we all tend to get buried in the minutiae of campaigns and lose sight of those things. Day after day, the media and analysts feed us stories that line us up against each other like armies getting ready for battle. Standing in the middle isn't an option, so people tend to take a side, even if they don't feel completely comfortable there.

The only way out of that trap is to try to define what it is you really stand for and believe in. After all, how can you say that Obama or McCain reflects your values if you don't even know what those values are?

Chances are that your definition will slant heavily to the values advertised by one of the parties. That's fine, but keep in mind that just because a party says they stand for something doesn't mean it's true.

After all, the Republicans said they stood for smaller government, but the size of our government grew enormously under a Republican president and a Republican majority in Congress. Democrats said they stood for an end to the war in Iraq, but for better or worse, nearly two years after taking over Congress, they don't even have a timetable for withdrawal.

My point is that actions speak louder than words. The "R" and the "D" don't matter if the people we elect don't follow through on their promises.

So what are my core values, the things that I refuse to compromise on? To figure that out, I decided to try to define what I think a conservative really believes.

A conservative believes that our inalienable rights do not include housing, healthcare or Hummers.

A conservative believes that our inalienable rights DO include the pursuit of happiness. That means it is guaranteed to no one.

A conservative believes that those who pursue happiness and find it have a right to not be penalized for that success.

A conservative believes that there are no protections against the hardship and heartache of failure. We believe that the right to fail is just as important as the chance to succeed and that those who do fail learn essential lessons that will help them the next time around.

A conservative believes in personal responsibility and accepts the consequences for his or her words and actions.

A conservative believes that real compassion can't be found in any government program.

A conservative believes that each of us has a duty to take care of our neighbors. It was private individuals, companies and congregations that sent water, blankets and supplies to New Orleans far before the government ever set foot there.

A conservative believes that family is the cornerstone of our society and that people have a right to manage their family any way they see fit, so long as it's not criminal. We are far more attuned to our family's needs than some faceless, soulless government program.

A conservative believes that people have a right to worship the God of their understanding. We also believe that people do not have the right to jam their version of God (or no God) down anybody else's throat.

A conservative believes that people go to the movies to be entertained and to church to be preached to, not the other way around.

A conservative believes that debt creates unhealthy relationships. Everyone, from the government on down, should live within their means and strive for financial independence.

A conservative believes that a child's education is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.

A conservative believes that every human being has a right to life, from conception to death.

A conservative believes in the smallest government you can get without anarchy. We know our history: The larger a government gets, the harder it will fall.

Those are the things a conservative believes in, and they're the things that I believe in. Now, if only I could find a candidate to match.
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:15 PM   #288
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So first he makes a case against putting people's beliefs into neat little categories, but then he compiles this long list about what Conservatives believe?
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:28 PM   #289
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Glen's speech reads an awful lot like an email Memphis forwarded me from one of his family members.

so ... taking one of his points, do conservatives not celebrate birthdays? do they instead celebrate the-night-my-parents-had-sex days? so am i really 9 months older than i think i am?
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Old 06-26-2008, 02:09 PM   #290
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Glen Beck... not quite the hypocrite Rush is, but a hypocrite none the less.
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:39 PM   #291
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Exactly. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. McCain wasn't going for a "campaign stop". He was going to check out the damage, like anyone who wants to be a responsible, caring leader should.
Did you miss the part where the governor asked the presidential candidates not to come to Iowa right now?
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Old 06-27-2008, 12:03 AM   #292
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We had a volunteer in the office yesterday calling voters and she spoke with one woman whose husband served under McCain...they are not voting for McCain.

See now say we get a couple of people together like this woman's husband. Call 'em Veterans For Truth or something like that. . .yeah. . .

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Old 06-27-2008, 12:15 AM   #293
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Here's what I thought was an excellent commentary on CNN.com by Glenn Beck

Commentary: Obama no, McCain maybe - CNN.com

Commentary: Obama no, McCain maybe

NEW YORK (CNN) -- A lot of people don't believe it, but the truth is that I really don't know whom I'm going to vote for this November. It won't be Barack Obama -- he and I simply disagree on too many fundamental issues -- but it also may not be John McCain.

As much as the media and the analysts try to pigeon-hole people as having only one political ideology, the fact is that most people (at least, most "real" people), don't fit neatly into one predetermined set of political beliefs.

I'm no exception. Although I am a "conservative," I'm not a "Republican," and there's a big difference. A true Republican, or a true Democrat, is someone who puts their party above their principles and their candidate above their conscience.

But most of us (or at least those of us who live outside the Beltway) aren't like that. We're more like the mad scientist Frankenstein: We'd like to take a piece of this candidate, a touch of that one and a little slice of the one over there, mash it all together and create someone who's lines up perfectly with our values and beliefs.

Which brings me back to John McCain. Like Obama, McCain and I have fundamental differences on a host of important issues. Sure, I disagree with him less than I do with Obama, but is that really the standard we should use in choosing their candidate? Our country isn't a reality show where we simply elect whoever's left after all the backstabbing and lying is finished.

On my radio program, I talk a lot about voting for your values. But as time goes by, we all tend to get buried in the minutiae of campaigns and lose sight of those things. Day after day, the media and analysts feed us stories that line us up against each other like armies getting ready for battle. Standing in the middle isn't an option, so people tend to take a side, even if they don't feel completely comfortable there.

The only way out of that trap is to try to define what it is you really stand for and believe in. After all, how can you say that Obama or McCain reflects your values if you don't even know what those values are?

Chances are that your definition will slant heavily to the values advertised by one of the parties. That's fine, but keep in mind that just because a party says they stand for something doesn't mean it's true.

After all, the Republicans said they stood for smaller government, but the size of our government grew enormously under a Republican president and a Republican majority in Congress. Democrats said they stood for an end to the war in Iraq, but for better or worse, nearly two years after taking over Congress, they don't even have a timetable for withdrawal.

My point is that actions speak louder than words. The "R" and the "D" don't matter if the people we elect don't follow through on their promises.

So what are my core values, the things that I refuse to compromise on? To figure that out, I decided to try to define what I think a conservative really believes.

A conservative believes that our inalienable rights do not include housing, healthcare or Hummers.

A conservative believes that our inalienable rights DO include the pursuit of happiness. That means it is guaranteed to no one.

A conservative believes that those who pursue happiness and find it have a right to not be penalized for that success.

A conservative believes that there are no protections against the hardship and heartache of failure. We believe that the right to fail is just as important as the chance to succeed and that those who do fail learn essential lessons that will help them the next time around.

A conservative believes in personal responsibility and accepts the consequences for his or her words and actions.

A conservative believes that real compassion can't be found in any government program.

A conservative believes that each of us has a duty to take care of our neighbors. It was private individuals, companies and congregations that sent water, blankets and supplies to New Orleans far before the government ever set foot there.

A conservative believes that family is the cornerstone of our society and that people have a right to manage their family any way they see fit, so long as it's not criminal. We are far more attuned to our family's needs than some faceless, soulless government program.

A conservative believes that people have a right to worship the God of their understanding. We also believe that people do not have the right to jam their version of God (or no God) down anybody else's throat.

A conservative believes that people go to the movies to be entertained and to church to be preached to, not the other way around.

A conservative believes that debt creates unhealthy relationships. Everyone, from the government on down, should live within their means and strive for financial independence.

A conservative believes that a child's education is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.

A conservative believes that every human being has a right to life, from conception to death.

A conservative believes in the smallest government you can get without anarchy. We know our history: The larger a government gets, the harder it will fall.

Those are the things a conservative believes in, and they're the things that I believe in. Now, if only I could find a candidate to match.
I actually agree with a lot of things on his list--though certainly not all, and yet I don't consider myself a conservative at all (nor do I suspect I would be regarded by one by most people on this forum). Why is that?

The answer, I believe is because Beck is employing one of the more rephrensible tools of political demagogues, which is to frame the argument in such a way that makes your opponenent look absurd.

His definition of "conservative" suggests for example that liberals think that getting into debt is a great idea, that some human beings don't have the right to live, that the government should determine how a family should be run, to name a few. Nonsense. Who really beliefs this? What Beck doesn't want you to know is that no reasonable person does--not just one who is "conservative."

And it's not even accurate. . .conservative supporters of the death penalty clearly don't believe that EVERY human being has the right to life. Conservative opponents of gay marriage clearly very much believe in the government meddling in how people organize their families, at least if "the gays" are involved.

**sigh**
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:06 AM   #294
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New York Times

June 27, 2008
Campaign Memo
For Obama, a Pragmatist’s Shift Toward the Center
By MICHAEL POWELL


Barack Obama has taken a stroll this week away from traditional liberal political positions, his path toward the political center marked by artful leaps and turns.

On Thursday, he seemed to embrace a Supreme Court decision, written by the court’s premiere conservative and upheld 5-to-4, striking down Washington, D.C.’s ban on handguns.

Mr. Obama seemed to voice support for the ban as recently as February. On Thursday, however, he issued a Delphic news release that seemed to support the Supreme Court, although staff members later insisted that might not be the case.

“I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms, but I also identify with the need for crime-ravaged communities to save their children from the violence that plagues our streets through common-sense, effective safety measures,” Mr. Obama said. “The Supreme Court has now endorsed that view.”

He added, “Today’s decision reinforces that if we act responsibly, we can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.”

In the last week, Mr. Obama has taken calibrated positions on issues that include electronic surveillance, campaign finance and the death penalty for child rapists, suggesting a presidential candidate in hot pursuit of what Bill Clinton once lovingly described as “the vital center.”

“A presidential candidate’s great desire is to be seen as pragmatic, and they hope their maneuvering and shifting will be seen in pursuit of some higher purpose,” said Robert Dallek, the presidential historian. “It doesn’t mean they are utterly insincere.”

George W. Bush, too, maneuvered toward the political center in 2000 presidential campaign, convincing many that he might rule in the moderately conservative tradition of his father. And Senator John McCain, the Republican presidential candidate, shifted several positions in the Republican primary, taking conservative lines on taxes and immigration.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt, for generations a liberal Democratic lode star, was no easier to define. He slipped and slid his way through the 1932 election. “Herbert Hoover called him a ‘chameleon on plaid,’ ” Mr. Dallek said.

Mr. Obama has executed several policy pirouettes in recent weeks, each time landing more toward the center of the political ring. On Wednesday in Chicago, he confirmed that he would not fight a revised law that would extend retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that helped the government spy on American citizens. (He had previously spoken against immunity provisions in an earlier version of the bill.) And recently he backed away from his own earlier support for campaign finance spending limits in the 2008 election.

Mr. Obama describes his new turns as consistent with long-held beliefs. On Wednesday he painted his decision to opt out of the campaign finance system as a reformist gesture, noting that most of his donors are not wealthy. “Our donor base is the American people,” he said, adding that this was the thematic goal of campaign finance reform.

This most observant of politicians has throughout his career shown an appreciation for the virtues of political ambiguity. In February, a local television anchor asked Mr. Obama to explain his support of the Washington gun ban. The candidate, a transcript shows, did not object to that characterization of his position, even as he said he favored the Second Amendment and supports law-abiding people who use guns for sport and protection. “And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets, we are going to trace more effectively how these guns are ending up on the streets, to unscrupulous gun dealers, who often times are selling to straw purchasers,” he said.

In South Carolina this year, Mr. Obama lent his voice to the battle against the Bush administration’s program of wiretaps without warrants. “This administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security he demands,” he said in South Carolina earlier this year.

The bill since has been modified, with internal safeguards put in place on wiretaps without warrants. This has not pleased Mr. Obama’s Democratic allies on the Hill; Senators Charles E. Schumer of New York, Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, and Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut, strongly oppose the bill.

But Mr. Obama indicated on Wednesday he probably would vote for it. “The issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security of the American people,” he said.

On the death penalty, Mr. Obama wrote in his memoir, “The Audacity of Hope,” (Crown, 2007), that the penalty “does little to deter crime.” But he added that society has the right to express outrage at heinous crimes. During his 2004 Senate campaign, he publicly supported the death penalty, even as he called the justice system flawed and urged a moratorium on executions.

Mr. Obama is an introspective candidate, and perhaps the best analyst of his own political style. “I serve as a blank screen,” he wrote in “The Audacity of Hope,” “on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:33 AM   #295
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New York Times

June 27, 2008
Campaign Memo
For Obama, a Pragmatist’s Shift Toward the Center
By MICHAEL POWELL


Mr. Obama is perhaps the best analyst of his own political style. “I serve as a blank screen,” he wrote in “The Audacity of Hope,” “on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”

I have been saying this
and people get upset


Obama is
an empty slate

where people project their own personal beliefs



even his website is full of this empty jargon

"I am asking you to believe in yours"
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Old 06-27-2008, 06:51 AM   #296
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I expect him to be the president. I have no problem with people supporting him. I just don't understand this elevation, this reluctance among so many people to criticize him as if he is some kind of delicate egg who will break--or if you blow too hard, somehow this sacred mist will dissipate revealing him to be a politician--ordinary, opportunistic, spinning, doing whatever he needs to to win. None of which are bad things but they are not the stuff of which romance is made. But he's a smart politician who knew he needed the romance for the primaries. He doesn't need it as much now.

He will rightfully capitalize on what is exceptional about him and he and his true believers and paid consultants will try to spin the remaining chaff into gold.

Cause that's the way the game is played and he really doesn't play it much different. He does play it well.
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:22 AM   #297
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I just don't understand this elevation, this reluctance among so many people to criticize him as if he is some kind of delicate egg who will break--or if you blow too hard, somehow this sacred mist will dissipate revealing him to be a politician--ordinary, opportunistic, spinning, doing whatever he needs to to win. None of which are bad things but they are not the stuff of which romance is made.
I agree. I do think after GW Bush people really need that romance, so they have created it to such an extent. It's like being married to a really horrible guy in a really bad marriage and getting a divorce (Jan 09, finally), and projecting that romance and perfection onto every guy that you date afterwards. Sooner or later reality hits and they are revealed to be just a guy.

Something like that.
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:01 PM   #298
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Bill Clinton says Barack Obama must 'kiss my ass' for his support - Telegraph


Bill Clinton says Barack Obama must 'kiss my ass' for his support


Bill Clinton is so bitter about Barack Obama's victory over his wife Hillary that he has told friends the Democratic nominee will have to beg for his wholehearted support.

Mr Obama is expected to speak to Mr Clinton for the first time since he won the nomination in the next few days, but campaign insiders say that the former president's future campaign role is a "sticking point" in peace talks with Mrs Clinton's aides.

The Telegraph has learned that the former president's rage is still so great that even loyal allies are shocked by his patronising attitude to Mr Obama, and believe that he risks damaging his own reputation by his intransigence.

A senior Democrat who worked for Mr Clinton has revealed that he recently told friends Mr Obama could "kiss my ass" in return for his support.

A second source said that the former president has kept his distance because he still does not believe Mr Obama can win the election.

Mr Clinton last week issued a tepid statement, through a spokesman, in which he said he "is obviously committed to doing whatever he can and is asked to do to ensure Senator Obama is the next president of the United States ".

Mr Obama was more effusive at his unity event with Mrs Clinton on Friday, speaking fondly of the absent former president, who attended Nelson Mandela's birthday celebrations in London instead. The candidate told the crowd: "I know how much we need both Bill and Hillary Clinton as a party. They have done so much great work. We need them badly."

But his aides said he has so far concentrated on cementing relations with Mrs Clinton first. They say they are content to let relations with Mr Clinton thaw gradually.

It has long been known that Mr Clinton is angry at the way his own reputation was tarnished during the primary battle when several of his comments were interpreted as racist.

But his lingering fury has shocked his friends. The Democrat told the Telegraph: "He's been angry for a while. But everyone thought he would get over it. He hasn't. I've spoken to a couple of people who he's been in contact with and he is mad as hell.

"He's saying he's not going to reach out, that Obama has to come to him. One person told me that Bill said Obama would have to quote kiss my ass close quote, if he wants his support.

"You can't talk like that about Obama - he's the nominee of your party, not some house boy you can order around.

"Hillary's just getting on with it and so should Bill."

Another Democrat said that despite polls showing Mr Obama with a healthy lead over Republican John McCain, Mr Clinton doesn't think he can win.

The party strategist, who was allied to one of the early rivals to Mr Obama and the former First Lady, said Mr Clinton was "very unhopeful" about the nominee's prospects in November.

"Bill Clinton knows the party will unite behind Obama, but he is telling people he doesn't believe Obama can win round voting groups, especially working-class whites, in the swing states," the strategist said.

"He just doesn't think Obama will be able to connect with the voters he needs."

Joe Klein, the author of Primary Colours, a fictionalised account of Mr Clinton's 1992 election, who has known the former president for 20 years, said he also heard that he was "very, very bitter", from people who have spoken with him.

"It's time for him to get over it or go off and do his charitable work. He knows the rules of the road. What's going on now is kind of strange. I think his behaviour is really, really shocking."


--------


Party unity!!!
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:08 PM   #299
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Party unity!!!

Um, you were there when everyone was saying they would vote for Hillary if McCain got the nom, right?
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:24 PM   #300
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Um, you were there when everyone was saying they would vote for Hillary if McCain got the nom, right?
Of course I was. That was different, though:

I don't recall anyone ever saying McCain would have to kiss their ass before they'd support him.

Also, I don't remember an ex-President of the United States (or anyone with similar standing and influence in the republican party) saying such things about McCain.

And there was a major difference why Ann Coulter or Rush and others were angry. They weren't just bitter because their preferred candidate didn't win. They were angry because McCain was not a real strong conservative. On the Democratic side, Obama has a very strong liberal record and liberal, Democratic-pleasing positions on most issues, so the anger towards him must mostly be personal bitterness, unlike the Republican side, which was largely issue-based.
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