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Old 06-24-2008, 12:30 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by U2isthebest View Post
It was just a few months ago that Dr. D was pulling his moral hair out over McCain getting the nomination. Maybe he'll do everyone a favor and stay home this year.
We can all hope, but I'm sure he has a book that needs promoting soon...
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:33 PM   #257
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And with all this talk about McCain supposedly scaring people, the Democrats do quite a bit of falsely scaring voters themselves. I sure hope you all can concede this.
When have the Dems "supposedly" scared voters with their lives?
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:35 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
When have the Dems "supposedly" scared voters with their lives?
I don't care what they scare them about, whether its their lives, money, whatever. Democrats do it constantly.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:41 PM   #259
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Democrats do it constantly.
Let's take the blinders off momentarily...

Politicians do it constantly.

But the point is, why would anyone want a leader that can't answer the question and will constantly divert the subject to 'if you don't vote for me, you'll get attacked' tactics?
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:31 PM   #260
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But the point is, why would anyone want a leader that can't answer the question and will constantly divert the subject to 'if you don't vote for me, you'll get attacked' tactics?
Uhh... I still don't see where he ever said this, but fair enough. He probably should have responded with gas prices. But come on- does anyone honestly think McCain doesn't acknowledge America's energy crisis? Does any dispute the fact that a terrorist attack would cripple our already damaged economy?
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:29 PM   #261
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Does any dispute the fact that a terrorist attack would cripple our already damaged economy?
Of course no one disputes that. But I guess it's a good thing all Republicans think alike.

But do you really think that's the gravest long-term threat to our economy? 9-11 wasn't even a long-term threat to our economy. I thought this war was working, according to Republicans this war is working. If that's the case why would an attack on US soil even be a concern?
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:46 PM   #262
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Actually, most people know that this Newsweek poll is far off the mark. The last time someone won by more than 15 percentage points was in 1984 when Reagan won re-election.




[q]Obama holds 12-point lead over McCain, poll finds

A Times/Bloomberg Poll says that in a two-man contest, 49% of respondents favor Barack Obama, while 37% support John McCain. With Ralph Nader and Bob Barr added to the mix, Obama holds 15-point edge.
By Doyle McManus
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

2:00 PM PDT, June 24, 2008

WASHINGTON -- — Buoyed by enthusiasm among Democrats and public concern over the economy, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has captured a sizable lead over Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) at the opening of the general election campaign for president, the Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg Poll has found.

In a two-man race between the major party candidates, registered voters chose Obama over McCain by 49% to 37% in the national poll conducted last weekend.

On a four-man ballot including independent candidate Ralph Nader and Libertarian Bob Barr, voters chose Obama over McCain by an even larger margin, 48% to 33%.

Obama's advantage, bigger in this poll than in most other national surveys, appears to stem in large part from his positions on domestic issues. Both Democrats and independent voters say Obama would do a better job than McCain at handling the nation's economic problems, the public's top concern.

In contrast, many voters give McCain credit as the more experienced candidate and the one best equipped to protect the nation against terrorism -- but they rank those concerns below their worries about the economy.

Moreover, McCain suffers from a pronounced "enthusiasm gap," especially among the conservatives who usually give Republican candidates a reliable base of support. Among voters who describe themselves as conservative, only 58% say they will vote for McCain; 15% say they will vote for Obama, 14% say they will vote for someone else, and 13% say they are undecided.

By contrast, 79% of voters who describe themselves as liberal say they plan to vote for Obama.

Even among voters who say they do plan to vote for McCain, more than half say they are "not enthusiastic" about their chosen candidate; only 45% say they are enthusiastic. By contrast, 81% of Obama voters say they are enthusiastic, and almost half call themselves "very enthusiastic," a level of zeal that only 13% of McCain's supporters display.[/q]








and there was this little nugget:

[q]The survey found public approval of President Bush's job performance at a new low for the Times/Bloomberg Poll: only 23% approved of the job Bush is doing, and 73% disapproved.[/q]
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:12 PM   #263
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Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., speaks during a meeting of Democratic Governors at the Chicago History Museum in Chicago Friday, June 20, 2008. A new seal debuted on Obama's podium Friday, sporting iconography used in the U.S. presidential seal, the blue background, the eagle clutching arrows on left and olive branch on right, but with symbolic differences. Instead of the Latin 'E pluribus unum' (Out of many, one), Obama's says 'Vero possumus', rough Latin for 'Yes, we can.' Instead of 'Seal of the President of the United States', Obama's Web site address is listed. And instead of a shield, Obama's eagle wears his 'O' campaign logo with a rising sun representing hope ahead.
I asked if this was a hoax?

It is really silly, and shows poor judgment.

I might expect this on the cartoon network.



Maybe Obama hired the "Mission Accomplished" team?

Quote:

Barack Obama appears with personalized presidential seal

BY Michael Saul and Celeste Katz
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS



Barack Obama introduced his own take on the presidential seal on Friday.

Yes, he can. But, really: Oh, no, he didn't!

Barack Obama's presidential campaign raised eyebrows and elicited snickers Friday when it unveiled the Obamamania version of the presidential seal.

At a meeting with Democratic governors in Chicago, Obama sat behind a rostrum with a seal that looked not-so-coincidentally like the official seal of the President of the United States.

Featuring an eagle clutching arrows and an olive branch, the seal contained a Latin phrase for a touch of gravitas that roughly translates to "Yes, We Can."

Asked to explain the new seal, Obama spokeswoman Jen Psaki said, "It's a mix of presidential politics and a call for hope and change."

Snarked John McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds, "I think we can all agree that we need presidential candidates that are serious enough not to play make-believe on the campaign trail."

"It's laughable, ridiculous, preposterous and revealing all at the same time," Bounds said.


Bets are in that the faux presidential seal which Sen. Barack Obama rolled out last week already has secured an early retirement, with the campaign facing more ridicule than the rostrum décor is worth.

"The Audacity of Hype,'' they called it at ABC News, as our friends at the Top of the Ticket note in citing the ribbing that Camp Obama has taken for its "Obama for America'' seal.

They also note Marc Ambinder's intelligence today at Atlantic.com:

"I'm told that Obama recognizes that it was a silly mistake, that the universal reaction at Wacker and Michigan was, 'Boy, was that dumb,' and that they don't think the seal staging will matter to actual voters.''

More bone-headed mistakes?
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:37 PM   #264
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Your speech is full of such hyperbole it's hard to take anything you say seriously anymore, deep.
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:28 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
[q]Obama holds 12-point lead over McCain, poll finds

A Times/Bloomberg Poll says that in a two-man contest, 49% of respondents favor Barack Obama, while 37% support John McCain. With Ralph Nader and Bob Barr added to the mix, Obama holds 15-point edge.
By Doyle McManus
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

2:00 PM PDT, June 24, 2008

WASHINGTON -- — Buoyed by enthusiasm among Democrats and public concern over the economy, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has captured a sizable lead over Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) at the opening of the general election campaign for president, the Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg Poll has found.

In a two-man race between the major party candidates, registered voters chose Obama over McCain by 49% to 37% in the national poll conducted last weekend.

On a four-man ballot including independent candidate Ralph Nader and Libertarian Bob Barr, voters chose Obama over McCain by an even larger margin, 48% to 33%.

Obama's advantage, bigger in this poll than in most other national surveys, appears to stem in large part from his positions on domestic issues. Both Democrats and independent voters say Obama would do a better job than McCain at handling the nation's economic problems, the public's top concern.

In contrast, many voters give McCain credit as the more experienced candidate and the one best equipped to protect the nation against terrorism -- but they rank those concerns below their worries about the economy.

Moreover, McCain suffers from a pronounced "enthusiasm gap," especially among the conservatives who usually give Republican candidates a reliable base of support. Among voters who describe themselves as conservative, only 58% say they will vote for McCain; 15% say they will vote for Obama, 14% say they will vote for someone else, and 13% say they are undecided.

By contrast, 79% of voters who describe themselves as liberal say they plan to vote for Obama.

Even among voters who say they do plan to vote for McCain, more than half say they are "not enthusiastic" about their chosen candidate; only 45% say they are enthusiastic. By contrast, 81% of Obama voters say they are enthusiastic, and almost half call themselves "very enthusiastic," a level of zeal that only 13% of McCain's supporters display.[/q]








and there was this little nugget:

[q]The survey found public approval of President Bush's job performance at a new low for the Times/Bloomberg Poll: only 23% approved of the job Bush is doing, and 73% disapproved.[/q]

When looking at polls, you need to go with the polling company that has been doing this thing the longest and was closest in predicting the 2004 election results:

Gallup Daily: Obama Holds Slight Edge, 46% vs. 43%

Unless McCain falls behind 12 to 15 points in their poll, its unlikely to happen on election day. Historically, the polls tighten as you get closer to election day, and the most accurate poll is already essentially a tie when it comes to this race.
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:44 PM   #266
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you still don't know anything. no one knows anything. it's only fools who wish they knew more than they did who are swallowing every sensationalistic storyline about a perceived horse race.

Newsweek had them tied in May. Gallup currently has Obama up 50 to 44.

but what matters, at this stage in the game, is not the national polls, nor even so much the polls in the swing states.

what matters, as U2democrat has accurately pointed out, is the overall feeling towards about the current direction of the country, and that's at it's lowest since the end of the Carter administration. also, 55% now identify as Democrats whereas only 36% identify as Republicans, and you can bet that a large portion of that 55% are young voters. so the future for the GOP is ever darkening. it seems that war, hate, and pandering to the willfully ignorant will only get you so far.
You've already said that McCain is going to be crushed in November. Then again, you said he would never win the Republican nomination and that he was "DONE". While nobody knows whats going to happen on election night, McCain is doing remarkably well, despite many of the factors you list against him. I don't deny that Obama has an advantage, but I don't see anything that indicates a landslide at the moment, and from this point on, things historically get tighter in the polling. Zogby came out with a bunch of statistical polls indicating that Bush would not win in 2004, but he did, by the first majority win in the popular vote since 1988.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:08 PM   #267
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You've already said that McCain is going to be crushed in November. Then again, you said he would never win the Republican nomination and that he was "DONE". While nobody knows whats going to happen on election night, McCain is doing remarkably well, despite many of the factors you list against him. I don't deny that Obama has an advantage, but I don't see anything that indicates a landslide at the moment, and from this point on, things historically get tighter in the polling. Zogby came out with a bunch of statistical polls indicating that Bush would not win in 2004, but he did, by the first majority win in the popular vote since 1988.


i don't know what you're trying to do with any of this STING, but get the chip off your shoulder. we're all just looking at the numbers, looking at the country, looking at some polls, and making a few educated guesses. it seems you take this thing very, very personally, and as such, you seem to want to turn every thought into a big game of gotcha like a child who can't wait to point out every possible imperfection he sees in his parents -- "see! you told me to clean my room, but then YOU left out a coffee cup!"

grow up. yes, i do think that Obama is going to win, possibly going to win big. but i don't know this. i don't say that i know this. i consistently say that i could be wrong, that there are lots of polls, lots of information, and the fact that it's June.

as always, you are creating pretend arguments and statements, and then responding to them.

everyone thought McCain was dead in 2007. and he was dead in 2007. he was lucky that Giuliani was an incredibly poor candidate. and he was lucky that no one fell for Fake Plastic Romney. McCain's rise from the dead is more remarkable when you look at the fact that McCain was the assumed 2008 nominee going way back to 2002. McCain was *always* supposed to be the Republican nominee, hence his grotesque backing of Bush in 2004 that was supposed to win him the support of the Bush political infrastructure.

i also said, all along, that if i were to vote for a GOP candidate, it would no question be McCain. some of that is due to the fact that the rest of the candidates were national embarrassments, but much of it is due to the fact that McCain has gone to great lengths to distance himself from the White House on important issues such as torture and global warming.

but here's why i think Obama is going to win, and win big. whenever you poll people about the issues, Obama wins -- and often wins big -- in every single category except for "terrorism."

[q]http://www.gallup.com/poll/108331/Obama-Has-Edge-Key-Election-Issues.aspx

Summary

Obama is leading McCain by six points among registered voters in the head-to-head matchup included in the current USA Today/Gallup poll, and there are significantly more Americans at the moment who identify themselves as Democrats than as Republicans. So it may not be surprising that Obama is rated as better able to handle more of the tested issues than is McCain.

Regardless of the cause, the finding that Obama has significant strength on domestic issues is potentially quite meaningful in this year's election, given that gas prices and the economy are the two issues the public is most likely to see as important in choosing between presidential candidates. In fact, further analysis of the poll results shows that less than half of Americans believe McCain would be able to do a good job of handling either gas prices or the economy, while 59% say Obama would be able to do a good job on both of these issues.[/q]


so McCain is going to have no choice but to try to scare people, and i don't see that working again. it is my guess that Obama will win the independents, and McCain has none of the base support that Bush enjoyed in 2000 and 2004. the country despises the president. the country also knows McCain much more than they know Obama. and Obama is the greatest orator since JFK. add this all up, and so long as there are no unforced errors, it really should be all Obama in the fall.

these are what the FACTS say at the moment. they could change. but your sunshine-y posts about McCain's chances aren't rooted in much beyond spin.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:20 AM   #268
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I believe that Reverend Caldwell is also the man who married Jenna Bush and Henry Hager


(AP)LOS ANGELES — Barack Obama said Tuesday that evangelical leader James Dobson was "making stuff up" when he accused the presumed Democratic presidential nominee of distorting the Bible.

Dobson used his Focus on the Family radio program to highlight excerpts of a speech Obama gave in June 2006 to the liberal Christian group Call to Renewal.

Speaking to reporters on his campaign plane before landing in Los Angeles, Obama said the speech made the argument that people of faith, like himself, "try to translate some of our concerns in a universal language so that we can have an open and vigorous debate rather than having religion divide us."

Obama added, "I think you'll see that he was just making stuff up, maybe for his own purposes."

In his program, Dobson focused on examples Obama cited in asking which Biblical passages should guide public policy. For instance, Obama said Leviticus suggests slavery is OK and eating shellfish is an abomination. Obama also cited Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, "a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application."

"Folks haven't been reading their Bibles," Obama said in the speech.

"I think he's deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the Bible to fit his own worldview, his own confused theology," Dobson said.

Asked about Dobson's assessment, Obama said "somebody would be pretty hard-pressed to make that argument" that he was distorting the Bible.

Obama supporters also responded to Dobson.

The Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, a Methodist pastor from Texas and longtime supporter of President Bush who has endorsed Obama, said Tuesday he belongs to a group of religious leaders who, working independently of Obama's campaign, launched a Web site to counter Dobson at . The site highlights statements from Obama and Dobson and asks visitors to compare them.

James Dobson Doesn't Speak For Me

Caldwell said he has great respect for Dobson's advocacy for families, but said the criticism of Obama was "a bit over the top" and "crossed the line."

"There has been a call for a higher level of politics and politicking," Caldwell said. "So to attack at this level is inappropriate and I think unacceptable and we at least want to hold everybody accountable."

Tom Minnery, a senior vice president at Focus on the Family, responded: "Without question, Dr. Dobson is speaking for millions of evangelicals because his understanding of the Bible is thoroughly evangelical."

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Old 06-25-2008, 10:25 AM   #269
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^^ Wow This evangelical divide is fascinating.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:26 AM   #270
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There's no way we can let people like Dobson decide this election
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