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Old 06-19-2008, 10:25 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I have to say I agree with BVS that it's probably not going to be high on a list of concerns for a lot of voters.

And to be honest, I'm never shocked when a politician says one thing and does another. Isn't that what they do? If he changed his mind on something I really cared about, I might have a different response, but at least in this election, it's very unlikely that it would make me not vote for him.
I guess I spoke to soon

so let's just sweep it under the carpet

and say, we got no mess here (fist bump)
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Old 06-19-2008, 11:02 PM   #182
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Oh, come off it, deep. Because campaign finances aren't at the top of my list of concerns and I'm cynical about politicians, I'm sweeping stuff under the rug?

Or are you just painting me as some (ohnoes!) dreaded Obamatron? Horrors.
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Old 06-19-2008, 11:06 PM   #183
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deep, how concerned are you about McCain's illegal financing move in the primaries? Breaking his very own bill, that's gotta be heart-warming for those very concerned about this issue.

The public has never given a shit about this and doesn't now. You can think that it doesn't matter how high a priority voters put on it, but in the end, that's the only thing that matters, practically speaking. I care about FISA too, but the average voter has no idea what it's about and probably cares even less. That's the breaks.
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Old 06-19-2008, 11:16 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post


Oh, come off it, deep. Because campaign finances aren't at the top of my list of concerns and I'm cynical about politicians, I'm sweeping stuff under the rug?

Or are you just painting me as some (ohnoes!) dreaded Obamatron? Horrors.
so young to be cynical


it is my birthday this week
painting you would be a nice present.
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Old 06-19-2008, 11:26 PM   #185
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Don't make jokes and try to charm me out of my snit. I was getting all riled up to tell you off!



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Old 06-19-2008, 11:43 PM   #186
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berate me, i've earned it.

:Pray:
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Old 06-19-2008, 11:54 PM   #187
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back on topic

I am not surprised Obama passed on the public financing.

If he had agreed to it, most if not all of his advisers would be up in arms.

They will have at least a 3 to 1 advantage with funding his campaign.

I guess the one thing I will fault him on is the reason given for opting out.
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:19 AM   #188
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deep, how concerned are you about McCain's illegal financing move in the primaries?
I do have some very significant concerns with McCain

McCain, for instance, opposed President Bush's tax cuts in 2001 and 2003. Now, as a White House hopeful in 2008, he supports them; he says doing otherwise would amount to a tax increase.

I support an inheritance tax.

I believe he opposes one
and also uses that bogus term "death tax".
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:31 AM   #189
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and yes, the inadequate troop numbers in Afghanistan--especially for reconstruction and training (McNeill said 400,000 is "what you'd really need," acknowledging in the same breath that to even hope for that would be "absurd")....


thank you for bringing this up. i had thought about this precise point, but couldn't have summarized it as succinctly as you have.

it also reinforces several central questions that neither candidate has offered an answer to: what, precisely, is the US plan for Afghanistan (or Iraq)? what would "success" in Afghanistan (or Iraq) even look like? and how to we get there?

in regards to Afghanistan, one can point to whatever troop levels one wants, but the shift in focus of the top minds at the Pentagon, DoD, and the military itself from Afghanistan to Iraq no doubt have obfuscated these central questions that are as pressing today as they were when they lost OBL in Tora Bora in December of 2001.

considering the stated goals for both countries change on a month-by-month basis, and have changed as such since 2001/3, what kind of mission are we on when our own commander says that we need 400,000 troops to accomplish whatever nebulous goal? obviously, whatever outcome he has in mind is inappropriate to the situation at hand. he's not getting 400,000 troops -- so what's he going to do about that?

perhaps it's not so much that what we're doing in both countries isn't working -- i mean, it isn't, but perhaps that's not the problem -- but that we don't have reasonable policy objectives. is it really important to make Iraq safe for 50+ (?!?!?!) military bases and a country safe for no-bid oil contracts? is it really important to maintain some sort of Empire-lite occupation for this increasingly vague notion of "victory" that some of us seem to crave (like those who can't admit that, yes, we lost in Vietnam)?

ultimately, the candidate who's able to offer not outright withdrawal, but clearer, more limited, more specific objectives will be the candidate who's best capable of salvaging something out of these two adventures in Empire. who's going to do that? will anyone ever do that?
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:32 AM   #190
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back on topic

I am not surprised Obama passed on the public financing.

If he had agreed to it, most if not all of his advisers would be up in arms.

They will have at least a 3 to 1 advantage with funding his campaign.

I guess the one thing I will fault him on is the reason given for opting out.


i think it's very simple.

Obama will not allow himself to be Swift Boated. it takes money to do that.
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:03 AM   #191
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Republicans have hammered Michelle Obama for her remarks in February that she was proud of America "for the first time in my adult life." Tonight, however, Dan Abrams showed footage he uncovered of a Fox News interview with John McCain on March 13, 2008, in which McCain said, "I didn't really love America until I was deprived of her company."

Abrams thinks McCain's comments could undermine the "right wing's steady attacks against Michelle Obama."

McCain: I 'Didn't Love America' Until Held Prisoner (VIDEO) - Politics on The Huffington Post

How any of this will fix gas prices and the economy, I don't know..
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:22 AM   #192
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How any of this will fix gas prices and the economy, I don't know..

Right. I really don't give a hoot about who's more patriotic than who, I want to know who can pull my country out of the muck.
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:39 AM   #193
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Obama has taken a short term hit for big-time long term gain. is it really so awful to refuse public money when you may well pull in over $500m from small doners? yes, there's certainly a reversal here, but, to me, this shows that Obama is, yes, a politician, and one who's capable of throwing elbows as sharply as anyone, only with better accuracy.

so this makes me, the political observer who has myriad convictions, and yet a clear preference in one side vs the other, in a difficult place. but then not all that difficult. i kind of like the fact that Obama is assumed to be intelligent, so he's therefore misunderestimated, in a weird reversal of the Bush syndrome. no one knew that Bush had rather astute, killer political instincts because he was so proudly incurious, anti-intellectual, insular, and monosyllabic. likewise, no one yet knows that Obama has astute, killer political instincts because he's so outwardly thoughtful, intellectual, worldly, and articulate.
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:29 AM   #194
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^Amen brother.

This was on MSNBC's First Read blog:

Quote:
As one very smart political observer told us yesterday, if Obama had stayed in the system -- bypassing the opportunity to raise about three times amount what the system offers -- then he’d question Obama’s judgment and ability to be president. Simply put, it would have been a dumb move.
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:03 PM   #195
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we also shouldn't ignore what John McCain has been doing, which is blatantly breaking the law. he is continuing to spend over the spending limits he promised to abide by through the primary season -- and we are in the primary season until the convention. McCain opted into public financing, accepted whatever limits were imposed, and then profited from that by securing a campaign saving loan.

what a Maverick! successfully gaming the system with the panache of a long-time DC insider, in fact breaking a law that has his very own name on it! McCain-Feingold! now that's some chutzpah.

and this also adds a nuance to what Obama originally said. he said he'd take public financing if his opponent were to do the same. clearly, McCain is not doing so. nor is he asking his supporters to reign in the 527s.

but McCain's a straight-talker who calls 'em as he sees 'em. so expect nothing from the press ...
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