US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #8

[Popmartijn]

My name is Buster Taint Palin

And do you approve that message?

 

[hiphop]

Credible feminist organizations have thrown their support to the Obama campaign.

The Associated Press: Women's rights groups endorse Obama for president

indeed

 

[INDY500]

pragmatic flexibility

-- formerly known as flip-flopping

see also: indecisive, wishy-washy, without principles, opportunistic and pandering

 

[anitram]

-- formerly known as flip-flopping

see also: indecisive, wishy-washy, without principles, opportunistic and pandering

What, like McCain's tax plan, his born-again regulation of Wall Street philosophy?

 

[Irvine511]

Hopefully, the tide is turning back in Obama's direction...what was it Clinton said....'It's the economy, stupid'.

it does seem to be. the polls are slowly but surely moving back to Obama, and he seems to have found his groove on the stump with a particularly nice line about [paraphrased], "McCain says he's going to take on the old boys network; in the McCain campaign, they call "the old boys network" a staff meeting."

that's a memorable line that will stick.

and don't think that Tina Fey and Sarah Palin is going to go away any time soon. the ratings were boffo for SNL last week (despite that being the only tolerable skit). so expect much more.

seems like that ad is deceitful. though this is what the Democrats have been begging Obama to do for quite a while. no doubt the large amount of Latino voters in CO, NM, and especially NV were the targets for this ad.

and i agree with Utoo -- if there's a conspiracy behind Ms. Palin's Yahoo! account, i'd be more inclined to think that it was the McCain campaign itself trying to generate sympathy.

 

[Irvine511]

-- formerly known as flip-flopping

see also: indecisive, wishy-washy, without principles, opportunistic and pandering

these are precisely the characteristics that would have prevented Iraq, Katrina, the decimation of the Justice Department, the wild expansion of executive powers, the erosion of our standing in the world, the deregulation of the markets to the extent that perhaps capitalism as we know it has collapsed ...

give me a flip-flopper any day over an incurious, proud-to-be-ignorant ideologue.

 

[Irvine511]

a senior moment for McCain?

During an interview in Miami earlier this week with Spanish-language station Union Radio, a reporter asked McCain whether, if elected, he would receive Zapatero in the White House. McCain answered, "Honestly, I have to analyze our relationships, situations, and priorities, but I can assure you that I will establish closer relationships with our friends, and I will stand up to those who want to harm the United States."

Ouch. The question about Zapatero, clearly framed by the reporter as a question about Spain, came after inquiries on Venezuela, Bolivia, and Cuba. As a result, much of the Spanish press has decided that the Republican candidate, who hails himself as the experienced foreign policy choice in this election, confused Spain — a NATO member and key ally in the fight against terrorism — with one of those troublesome Latin American states. That was certainly the interviewer's impression, for she followed up with a gentle reminder that Spain was a country in Europe. As Spanish newspaper El Pa?s put it, "In the best-case scenario, [his answer] demonstrates his ignorance with respect to Zapatero."

so does John McCain not know who the president of Spain is, or does he think Spain is a country in Latin America?

 

[Strongbow]

Yes but is we are merely stating facts here

It is a irrefutable fact that more Americans voted for John Kerry for President
than the number of Americans that voted for Ronald Reagan in 1984.

So, Reagan's 1984 landslide falls behind both Al Gore and John Kerry in number of votes.


More American went to the polls for Al Gore or John Kerry than for Reagan in a single election.

Actually, a lot of this is incorrect. Lets take a look at the numbers.


number of people voting for Reagan in 1984: 54,455,472
number of people voting for Al Gore in 2000: 51,003,926
number of people voting for J. Kerry in 2004: 59,028,439
number of people voting for Johnson in 1964: 43,127,041

number of people voting for W in 2004: 62,040,610


Yes, John Kerry and George Bush in 2004 did receive more votes than Reagan did in 1984 if you just compare the nominal numbers. But if you adjust for the size of the population which was 235 million in 1984 VS. 295 million in 2004, then Reagan's 1984 victory is still out in front.

 

[Strongbow]

W is actually one of the least popular U S Presidents ever.


In 1964 when L B J got one of the highest percentages - 61.1%
the population was 192 million.

Sorry, but your definitely not one of the least popular Presidents ever when you get re-elected with over 50% of the popular vote. W got 50.73% of the popular vote in 2004.

There are only TWO democratic Presidents that have ever been re-elected with 50% or more of the popular vote, Andrew Jackson and Franklin Roosevelt. Without those two, the Democrats don't have anyone as popular and successful as W was in November 2004.

Yes, if you adjust for population, Johnson is ahead of W, but not by much and Johnson was not re-elected like W.

 

[Strongbow]

a senior moment for McCain?




so does John McCain not know who the president of Spain is, or does he think Spain is a country in Latin America?

On Meet The Press, Joe Biden claimed that there were no Sunni's in Al Anbar Province. He later tried to correct himself by saying there were no Shia in Al Anbar province which is also incorrect.

 

[Strongbow]

it does seem to be. the polls are slowly but surely moving back to Obama, and he seems to have found his groove on the stump with a particularly nice line about [paraphrased], "McCain says he's going to take on the old boys network; in the McCain campaign, they call "the old boys network" a staff meeting."

that's a memorable line that will stick.

and don't think that Tina Fey and Sarah Palin is going to go away any time soon. the ratings were boffo for SNL last week (despite that being the only tolerable skit). so expect much more.

seems like that ad is deceitful. though this is what the Democrats have been begging Obama to do for quite a while. no doubt the large amount of Latino voters in CO, NM, and especially NV were the targets for this ad.

and i agree with Utoo -- if there's a conspiracy behind Ms. Palin's Yahoo! account, i'd be more inclined to think that it was the McCain campaign itself trying to generate sympathy.

Naturally, Obama is getting his bump from the bad financial news of the past few days. Its clear that in order for Obama to win in November, he is going to need continued bad news on the economic front for the country.

But still, there is no sign of that Obama Tsunami. Provided McCain/Palin win Ohio, Virginia, and Colorado, they are going to win the election regardless of the popular vote. Latest poll in Colorado has McCain/Palin ahead by two points.

 

[Irvine511]

On Meet The Press, Joe Biden claimed that there were no Sunni's in Al Anbar Province. He later tried to correct himself by saying there were no Shia in Al Anbar province which is also incorrect.

the state flower of Minnesota is the pink and white lady slipper.

 

[Irvine511]

Naturally, Obama is getting his bump from the bad financial news of the past few days. Its clear that in order for Obama to win in November, he is going to need continued bad news on the economic front for the country.

now that the election has shifted back to actual issues instead of "lipstick on a pig" and "sex ed for 5 year olds," that can only mean bad news for McCain. it's terribly obvious to everyone that McCain doesn't have any grasp of economic issues, and nearly all of the actual issues themselves heavily favor the Democrats. McCain had hoped to start another culture war with the pick of Palin, but as her favorability ratings continue to plummet in the polls, her inexperience and lack of any comprehensive understanding of any national issues are going to make her a liability. thus, he'll have to manufacture another distraction, and quickly, if he doesn't want to be too far behind before the first debate begins. i wonder what they'll cook up?

But still, there is no sign of that Obama Tsunami. Provided McCain/Palin win Ohio, Virginia, and Colorado, they are going to win the election regardless of the popular vote. Latest poll in Colorado has McCain/Palin ahead by two points.

are you really going to keep this up? the tsunami thing?

some polls have Obama ahead in OH and tied in FL.

 

[2861U2]

Hey, apparently paying higher taxes is patriotic, according to Joe.

Well geeze, that just makes me want to vote for Obama/Biden, then. God Bless America!

 

[2861U2]

You know, I was just thinking that how the McCain campaign responds to this ad could be quite revealing. Will he dare to disassociate himself from Limbaugh?

You don't need to disassociate yourself from someone you've never been associated with.

 

[Irvine511]

QUESTION: Senator, finally, let's talk about Spain. If you're elected president, would you be willing to invite President Jose Luiz Rodriguez Zapatero to the White House to meet with you?

MCCAIN: I would be willing meet, uh, with those leaders who our friends [sic] and want to work with us in a cooperative fashion, and by the way, President Calderon of Mexico is fighting a very very tough fight against the drug cartels. I'm glad we are now working in cooperation with the Mexican government on the Merida plan. I intend to move forward with relations, and invite as many of them as I can, those leaders, to the White House.

QUESTION: Would that invitation be extended to the Zapatero government, to the president itself?

MCCAIN: I don't, you know, honestly I have to look at relations and the situations and the priorities, but I can assure you I will establish closer relations with our friends and I will stand up to those who want to do harm to the United States of America.

QUESTION: So you have to wait and see if he's willing to meet with you, or you'll be able to do it in the White House?

MCCAIN: Well again I don't, all I can tell you is that I have a clear record of working with leaders in the hemisphere that are friends with us, and standing up to those who are not, and that's judged on the basis of the importance of our relationship with Latin America, and the entire region.

QUESTION: Okay... what about you, I'm talking about the President of Spain?

MCCAIN: What about me what?

QUESTION: Okay... are you willing to meet with him if you are elected president?

MCCAIN: I am willing to meet with any leader who is dedicated to the same principles and philosophy that we are for human rights, democracy and freedom, and I will stand up to those that do not.

conclude what you will.

is he punishing Zapatero over Iraq in neocon fashion? or what?

 

[Vincent Vega]

Apparently, things have happened in Spain I don't know of, yet.

Oh, no, they just elected a left-leaning government that kept its promise to pull out of Iraq. Evil regime.

 

[Irvine511]

Apparently, things have happened in Spain I don't know of, yet.

Oh, no, they just elected a left-leaning government that kept its promise to pull out of Iraq. Evil regime.

perhaps they've been put on notice? send troops back to Iraq or the US will invade?

 

[Strongbow]

now that the election has shifted back to actual issues instead of "lipstick on a pig" and "sex ed for 5 year olds," that can only mean bad news for McCain. it's terribly obvious to everyone that McCain doesn't have any grasp of economic issues, and nearly all of the actual issues themselves heavily favor the Democrats. McCain had hoped to start another culture war with the pick of Palin, but as her favorability ratings continue to plummet in the polls, her inexperience and lack of any comprehensive understanding of any national issues are going to make her a liability. thus, he'll have to manufacture another distraction, and quickly, if he doesn't want to be too far behind before the first debate begins. i wonder what they'll cook up?

Its the economic news of the past 4 days, nothing more, that is responsible for Obama's new bounce. Obama benefits simply by not being a member of the party in the White House.

are you really going to keep this up? the tsunami thing?

You started it. Its your prediction.

 

[Strongbow]

the state flower of Minnesota is the pink and white lady slipper.

Well, I agree that Obama is probably more likely to know that then any of the actual demographics of the individual provinces of Iraq.

 

[Irvine511]

Its the economic news of the past 4 days, nothing more, that is responsible for Obama's new bounce. Obama benefits simply by not being a member of the party in the White House.

the focus on issues such as the economy and not sideshow distractions are what is directly contributing to Obama's clear and continued rise in the polls. in addition, Palin's novelty factor is wearing off and her demonstrated lack of knowledge in the Gibson interview didn't help either.

you are correct that it is Republicans, including McCain, who are to be faulted for the current crisis. this is why he is suffering in the polls. it is because of the policies that McCain has supported that have turned out to have damaged the American economy that are contributing to his slide in the polls. Americans don't want any more of the economic policies championed by McCain, and they are concerned that he doesn't know anything about economics, as he himself has admitted on many occasions.

You started it. Its your prediction.

i speculated that it was one scenario. you seem to want to use it as some sort of evidence that i've been incorrect about something at some point in time, and then use it in whatever current debate you're trying to have with me in order to score points you're unable to at present.

but, hey, if the election continues to be about issues and not culture wars and lipstick on pigs, then we might well see this Obama tsunami. either way, the more reality encroaches, the more McCain struggles.

 

[Irvine511]

Well, I agree that Obama is probably more likely to know that then any of the actual demographics of the individual provinces of Iraq.

Obama knows that Spain is a democracy in Europe, not a dictatorship in Latin America.

 

[BVS]

Hey, apparently paying higher taxes is patriotic, according to Joe.

Well geeze, that just makes me want to vote for Obama/Biden, then. God Bless America!

Is not wanting to fund your government yet supporting huge deficit causing wars more patriotic in your opinion?

 

[purpleoscar]

Is not wanting to fund your government yet supporting huge deficit causing wars more patriotic in your opinion?

The first George Bush raised taxes to help balance the budget and the democrats spent more leading to no balanced budget. Why should anyone trust increasing taxes will balance the budget when new spending is already being promised?

The left will stab the right in the back at the first opportunity. If McCain wins he better watch out who he crosses the isle for.

Controlling spending is the only way.

Not funding wars to balance the budget is basically suicide since the U.S. is the only one that has a chance of checking Russia, Iran, N. Korea, & China. And that is only a maybe. If the world was just a bunch of democracies trading with each other, then a reduction in military would be possible.

 

[BVS]

The first George Bush raised taxes to help balance the budget and the democrats spent more leading to no balanced budget. Why should anyone trust increasing taxes will balance the budget when new spending is already being promised?

The left will stab the right in the back at the first opportunity. If McCain wins he better watch out who he crosses the isle for.

Uh, yeah, that's why we're in the hole we're in...

Controlling spending is the only way.

Well this should always be the goal.

Not funding wars to balance the budget is basically suicide since the U.S.

Not sure what you mean by this...

If the world was just a bunch of democracies trading with each other, then a reduction in military would be possible.

Um yeah, and world peace would be nice...

 

[Irvine511]

Controlling spending is the only way.

because the Republicans have controlled spending exactly how since W. Bush was elected?

 

[Vincent Vega]

since the U.S. is the only one that has a chance of checking Russia, Iran, N. Korea, & China.

Are you sure?

 

[yolland]

You don't need to disassociate yourself from someone you've never been associated with.

Of course there's no direct literal association between the two of them, but that wasn't what I meant. Part of McCain's problem with Latino voters is a distrustful sense that he's been cowed by the right wing of his party (of which Limbaugh is a highly visible and controversial symbol) and will no longer stand up for comprehensive immigration reform as he once did. Associating McCain with ugly-sounding comments from Limbaugh is a sensationalistic, string-tugging way of exploiting that fear (which is why I agree that the ad is deceitful). But from what I've read, thus far all the McCain campaign has done by way of response is to have a Latino Congressman surrogate release a tepid-sounding statement that the ad lies about McCain's record on immigration, without addressing either the charge that his positions have changed or the implication that he's comfortable with supporters who enjoy sentiments like "stupid and unqualified Mexicans." Which is pretty much what I expected. That's not to say it might not be a wholly sufficient response for political purposes; but I do think the Obama campaign was intentionally throwing down a gauntlet here, and it's interesting to see how the McCain campaign responds.

 

[Irvine511]

could it be that Americans aren't quite as distracted by bright, shiny governors as McCain thought they were?

Gallup Daily: Obama 48%, McCain 44%

 

[Vincent Vega]

Its the economic news of the past 4 days, nothing more

Quite an interesting qualifier considering what were the economic news of the past four days.
And interesting as well that it is just the economy that pushes Obama.