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Old 09-18-2008, 04:04 PM   #961
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Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
Its the economic news of the past 4 days, nothing more, that is responsible for Obama's new bounce. Obama benefits simply by not being a member of the party in the White House.
And McCain's jumpboard(Palin) has lost it's spring...

Too bad he couldn't have announced her a week before the election.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:13 PM   #962
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
-- formerly known as flip-flopping

see also: indecisive, wishy-washy, without principles, opportunistic and pandering
Yes. We all want to be like George W. Bush and believe the same thing on Wednesday we believed on Monday no matter what happened on Tuesday.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:21 PM   #963
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Sarah Palin's a dufus:

From CNN:

Quote:
Palin's transparency proposal already exists in D.C.
Posted: 02:10 PM ET

From CNN Political Producer Peter Hamby




CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (CNN) – Sarah Palin likes to tell voters around the country about how she “put the government checkbook online” in Alaska. On Thursday, Palin suggested she would take that same proposal to Washington.

“We’re going to do a few new things also,” she said at a rally in Cedar Rapids. “For instance, as Alaska’s governor, I put the government’s checkbook online so that people can see where their money’s going. We’ll bring that kind of transparency, that responsibility, and accountability back. We’re going to bring that back to D.C.”

There’s just one problem with proposing to put the federal checkbook online – somebody’s already done it. His name is Barack Obama.

In 2006 and 2007, Obama teamed up with Republican Sen. Tom Coburn to pass the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act, also known as “Google for Government.” The act created a free, searchable web site – USASpending.gov — that discloses to the public all federal grants, contracts, loans and insurance payments.


In June of this year, Obama and Coburn introduced new Senate legislation to expand the information available online to include details on earmarks, competitive bidding, criminal activities, audit disputes and other government information.

Palin might also have noted that her running mate, John McCain, was an original co-sponsor of the 2006 transparency bill that became law.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:25 PM   #964
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^ and that makes her a "dufus" how?

I don't recall that she ever said she was the first politician to do this. She did it at the state level. Obama's thing was at the federal level.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:26 PM   #965
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
the focus on issues such as the economy and not sideshow distractions are what is directly contributing to Obama's clear and continued rise in the polls. in addition, Palin's novelty factor is wearing off and her demonstrated lack of knowledge in the Gibson interview didn't help either.

you are correct that it is Republicans, including McCain, who are to be faulted for the current crisis. this is why he is suffering in the polls. it is because of the policies that McCain has supported that have turned out to have damaged the American economy that are contributing to his slide in the polls. Americans don't want any more of the economic policies championed by McCain, and they are concerned that he doesn't know anything about economics, as he himself has admitted on many occasions.
Lets not get carried away. The results of the past 4 days would benefit any party that is not currently in power in the White House. It has little if anything to do with Obama/Biden or their plans for the future.

The focus was definitely on issues just before the conventions and Obama and McCain were in a statistical tie at that time.

Quote:
i speculated that it was one scenario. you seem to want to use it as some sort of evidence that i've been incorrect about something at some point in time, and then use it in whatever current debate you're trying to have with me in order to score points you're unable to at present.


On multiple occasions you discussed that Obama and the Democrats were going to crush the Republicans in November 2008.

When Obama won the nomination and bounced to a lead of 6 points in the gallup poll, you claimed that McCain would NEVER get within 6 points of Obama for the rest of the election.

If you really believe that Obama is going to win by a Tsunami like margin, thats ok. I'm just saying I have yet to see it. If Bush was as bad a President as you claim him to be, there should indeed be a Tsunami.


Quote:
but, hey, if the election continues to be about issues and not culture wars and lipstick on pigs, then we might well see this Obama tsunami. either way, the more reality encroaches, the more McCain struggles.
Was that the situation just before the start of the conventions?

Again, if people really felt the same way you do about Bush, the Republicans, the last 8 years, that its this once in a century disaster, there would not be any need to have an election.

The reality though, is despite all of these outlandish claims, Obama/Biden might be returning to their Senate jobs for several years on November 5th.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:28 PM   #966
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
Quite an interesting qualifier considering what were the economic news of the past four days.
And interesting as well that it is just the economy that pushes Obama.
Given how tight the race is, the only thing that explains his slight lead is the past 4 days.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:33 PM   #967
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
^ and that makes her a "dufus" how?

I don't recall that she ever said she was the first politician to do this. She did it at the state level. Obama's thing was at the federal level.
Exactly, Obama did it at the federal level. Now she comes and suggests: "We will do something new, like putting transparency on the federal level."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
Given how tight the race is, the only thing that explains his slight lead is the past 4 days.
Yes, hence I was alluding to your "nothing more" in the sentence.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:41 PM   #968
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
^ and that makes her a "dufus" how?

I don't recall that she ever said she was the first politician to do this. She did it at the state level. Obama's thing was at the federal level.

She's a dufus because she's claiming that she wants to do something "new" and bring it to Washington.






It's already there.
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:07 PM   #969
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
could it be that Americans aren't quite as distracted by bright, shiny governors as McCain thought they were?

Gallup Daily: Obama 48%, McCain 44%
These "polls" will bounce one way to the next up until election night. They always do. I wouldn't put too much faith in them one way or the other.
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:16 PM   #970
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One other thing from that CNN article about "Google for Government".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
Sarah Palin's a dufus:

From CNN:
Quote:
Palin's transparency proposal already exists in D.C.
Posted: 02:10 PM ET

From CNN Political Producer Peter Hamby




CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (CNN) – Sarah Palin likes to tell voters around the country about how she “put the government checkbook online” in Alaska. On Thursday, Palin suggested she would take that same proposal to Washington.

“We’re going to do a few new things also,” she said at a rally in Cedar Rapids. “For instance, as Alaska’s governor, I put the government’s checkbook online so that people can see where their money’s going. We’ll bring that kind of transparency, that responsibility, and accountability back. We’re going to bring that back to D.C.”

There’s just one problem with proposing to put the federal checkbook online – somebody’s already done it. His name is Barack Obama.

In 2006 and 2007, Obama teamed up with [u]Republican[u] Sen. Tom Coburn to pass the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act, also known as “Google for Government.” The act created a free, searchable web site – USASpending.gov — that discloses to the public all federal grants, contracts, loans and insurance payments.


In June of this year, Obama and Coburn introduced new Senate legislation to expand the information available online to include details on earmarks, competitive bidding, criminal activities, audit disputes and other government information.

Palin might also have noted that her running mate, John McCain, was an original co-sponsor of the 2006 transparency bill that became law.
(all emphasis mine)

Gasp! Obama is bipartisan too!
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:21 PM   #971
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Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
Lets not get carried away. The results of the past 4 days would benefit any party that is not currently in power in the White House. It has little if anything to do with Obama/Biden or their plans for the future.

you're right -- John McCain is as much to blame for this crisis as any member of the Republican party in Congress. this is why he is falling in the polls. voters are looking at his record and the record of the Republican party, and they are comparing it to the record and proposals of the Democrats and Obama, and the poll numbers are shifting correspondingly.






Quote:
On multiple occasions you discussed that Obama and the Democrats were going to crush the Republicans in November 2008.

When Obama won the nomination and bounced to a lead of 6 points in the gallup poll, you claimed that McCain would NEVER get within 6 points of Obama for the rest of the election.

If you really believe that Obama is going to win by a Tsunami like margin, thats ok. I'm just saying I have yet to see it. If Bush was as bad a President as you claim him to be, there should indeed be a Tsunami.


you know what STING? you need to grow up. you need to stop putting words in people's mouths and you need to stop twisting thoughts, speculation, and theories into fist-shaking declarations. i speculated that it was indeed possible that there was going to be a Democratic landslide in the fall. it is indeed *very* likely that the Democrats are going to win many more Republican seats. and it is indeed likely that Obama will win, and that Obama will win by a comfortable margin.

but you know what i just did there? i'll give you a hint -- it was what i did when the election first began and we were tossing around ideas. i said it was LIKELY that certain things would happen. that's called a qualifier.

i never "claimed" anything. i said it was LIKELY that McCain might never get within 5 points. i said other things were LIKELY, based on information at the time.

if you want to spin old posts that contain guesses and speculation and turn them into whatever you need to do to make yourself feel better, you just go ahead and do so. it's only going to add to the consensus that, 1) you're dishonest, and 2) you're every bit the troll that most people who ignore you already think you are.

if you do this again, if you take speculation on my part from months ago and twist it so that you can pretend that it's some kind of passionate argument that's entirely different from what i originally said and then use that as some sort of jumping off point into a line of thought that you wish had been put forward, then i am going to put you on my Ignore List.




Quote:
Again, if people really felt the same way you do about Bush, the Republicans, the last 8 years, that its this once in a century disaster, there would not be any need to have an election.

have you taken note of the fact that John McCain doesn't mention Bush by name? not even in his acceptance speech? that bush *literally* phoned in a speech to the RNC? that McCain is touting "change" from Bush? that McCain considered running with Kerry in '04? that the only reason he's alive in the polls is because he has thrown Bush under the bus? that Bush struggles to get to 30% on a good day? that the Democrats made historic gains in 2006 and are posed to increase their margins in the House and Senate in 2008?

it's not my opinion that Bush and the Republicans have been a disaster. it is the opinion of over 70% of the American people. and history.


Quote:
The reality though, is despite all of these outlandish claims, Obama/Biden might be returning to their Senate jobs for several years on November 5th.

yes, they might. but i have yet to say anything "outlandish." what's "outlandish" is how you twist everything so that you can respond to the statements you wish were made because you need them to be made for your statements to have any semblance of coherence.
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:22 PM   #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
Lets not get carried away. The results of the past 4 days would benefit any party that is not currently in power in the White House.
It would probably also benefit the candidate whom the overwhelming majority of economists support and the candidate who hasn't preached deregulation from the pulpit for almost 3 decades.

Either way, if you think that the polls are a result of the current economic situation then I can only assume that you are extremely pessimistic given that no sentient being could possibly think that this economy will head anywhere positive in the next 7 weeks. How much more bad news is on the horizon?
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:39 PM   #973
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Survey USA has polled New Mexico (Obama is quite a bit ahead) but also found this:

Quote:
LATINOS
McCain 28
Obama 69
YOWZA.

Why don't Latinos like John McCain? Is Harry gonna come in here and tell us that Obama looks kind of Hispanic if you squint so that's why McCain is losing by over 40 pts among this cohort?
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Old 09-18-2008, 06:10 PM   #974
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
^ and that makes her a "dufus" how?

Actually, this makes her a dufus:

Quote:
"gov.palin@yahoo.com"
It sounds like an e-mail a 419 scammer would use, like "presidentsoludo@yahoo.com" .

A yahoo account? With "gov.palin" as the username? I'm surprised it took this long to get hacked.
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Old 09-18-2008, 06:14 PM   #975
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Actually, this makes her a dufus:



A yahoo account? With "gov.palin" as the username? I'm surprised it took this long to get hacked.
she was showing McCain how to set up an email account.
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