US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #8 - Page 57 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-15-2008, 10:24 PM   #841
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,496
Local Time: 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post



you know, i wouldn't doubt this. but it begs the question: why isn't McCain running on his record?

why is he running on outright, provable lies and know-nothing, facts-be-damned cultural identification platform?
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-15-2008, 10:28 PM   #842
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,295
Local Time: 07:31 PM
Given the way the Republicans in Congress have governed and behaved during the years that Obama has been in DC, I can't say that I fault him for not crossing partisan lines.

In some cases, being bipartisan is bullshit, and I feel that way about a lot of the legislation they tried to pass. So frankly, I see nothing particularly wrong about this. The GOP has done nothing but blindly follow Bush, blocked the passage of a number of actually good ideas (hello immigration), threatened with an array of methods to stop the work of the Congress and so on. These are not people that you can deal with at this point. Perhaps when they are an even smaller minority, they'll stop acting like the country is their personal toilet to shit all over.
__________________

__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 09-15-2008, 10:33 PM   #843
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:31 AM
I'm reviewing McCain's and Obama's bill sponsorships since 2005 right now. So far, it looks like the overwhelming majority of these bipartisan bills McCain sponsored are very minor Committee on Indian Affairs bills, plus about a half-dozen Senate resolutions 'urging' various former Soviet republics to ensure fair elections.

Haven't made it to the present session yet though.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 12:25 AM   #844
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
you know, i wouldn't doubt this. but it begs the question: why isn't McCain running on his record?

why is he running on outright, provable lies and know-nothing, facts-be-damned cultural identification platform?
You know why. We all do: Because his record would alienate his base. Have we all forgotten how despised he was by many of the various ones who are now championing his cause?

And besides the the lies and cultural identification platform seem be a winning formula.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This election--for me--really is a referendum on the electorate, not the candidates. If McCain wins based on the campaing he's running, it will reflect poorly on the American voter.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 12:27 AM   #845
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 07:31 PM
I love that the ladies on The View were the most right about McCain than any reporter in America.

Including the fact that he's a different John McCain now than he used to be.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 05:57 AM   #846
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
OK, so, yeah, I checked all the bills each of them have introduced as sponsors since 2005. I didn't look at bills where they served as co-sponsors--that would've meant reading over an additional 666 ( ) entries for Obama and an additional 288 for McCain. It's undeniable that McCain has a much higher percentage of bipartisan-sponsored bills (just as it's undeniable that Obama is far more prolific overall as a sponsor and cosponsor); however, it's also easy to cherry-pick a handful of impressively weighty-sounding bills, while simultaneously emphasizing a high bipartisanship rate, in order to exaggerate an image as bridge-builder on Stuff That Really Matters, and I think reviewing just the bills they respectively sponsored illustrates that well enough.



McCain has introduced a total of 97 bills, as sponsor, in the Senate since 2005. (Committees he belongs to: Indian Affairs; Armed Services; and Commerce, Science & Transportation.)

Of those 97 bills, 61 had at least one Dem co-sponsor (13 of the 61 were actually the same bill being reintroduced, but I counted them anyway).

21 of those 61 were Indian Affairs bills--expanding Native American domestic violence prevention measures here, arbitration support for some specific reservation's land dispute there, etc. etc. Good on McCain for keeping active on behalf of his Native American constituents ; that said, there's nothing particularly impressive about securing bipartisan support on these issues, since receptivity to Indian Affairs proposals has much more to do with which state a Congressperson is from than which party s/he belongs to.

6 more of those 61 were resolutions urging Moldova, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Sri Lanka (twice), and Belarus, respectively, to ensure fair elections.

The remaining 25 bipartisan-sponsored bills (minus the reintroductions):

--Resolution: Russia's G8 membership should be contingent on adherence to democracy.
--Resolution: Russia should withdraw its new legislation limiting foreign NGO activity.
--Resolution: We support Georgia's South Ossetia peace plan.
--Jan '06 is Nat'l Mentoring Month.
--Resolution: Int'l Football Assoc. shouldn't let Iranian teams participate.
--Establish a US Boxing Commission (as in, the sport of boxing).
--Amend Fed. Campaign Act to clarify which organizations are PACs.
--Resolution: US should strengthen democracy globally through peaceful means like advocacy, alliances and implementation support.
--Implement FCC regulations re: low-power FM services.
--Funding for a resource study of sites associated with Cesar Chavez.
--Funding for research on climate change and reducing greenhouse emissions.
--Sanctions against certain Burmese officials and gem and lumber imports from Burma.
--Allow Armed Forces members to designate their own beneficiaries.
--Expedite the transition to digital TV.
--Eliminate the annual operating deficit backlog of the Nat'l Parks.
--Reinstate FCC's video programming description rules.
--Modernize child porn reporting methods.
--Establish a working group to study public safety spectrum (spectrum as in radio) needs.
--Enhance US border security.
--No new state-imposed discriminatory cell phone taxes.
--Increase rail transport security.
--Greater transparency on lobbying activities.
--Curtail Congressional earmarks.
--Sanctions against Uzbek officials linked to the Andijan massacre.
--Minor technical correction to 1971 Campaign Act.



Obama has introduced a total of 136 bills, as sponsor, in the Senate since 2005. (Committees he belongs to: Health, Education, Labor & Pensions; Veterans Affairs; Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs; and Foreign Relations.)

Of those 136 bills, 36 had at least one Republican co-sponsor (6 of the 36 were reintroductions).

9 of those 36 were were resolutions honoring a historical figure (like the Rosa Parks stamp mentioned in the article). Nice gesture, but irrelevant to voters.

The remaining 23 bipartisan-sponsored bills (minus the reintroductions):

--Reduce US dependence on oil through alternative fuels and new technology.
--Increase fuel economy standards for autos.
--Relief, security and democracy promotion measures for the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
--Establish an alternative diesel standard.
--Increase alternative-fuel vehicle refueling capacities.
--July 13 is National Summer Learning Day.
--Require notification of state and local officials when excess, unplanned fission products release occurs.
--Resolution: We condemn the violent acts of the Zimbabwean gov't.
--Add flu pandemic provisions to Public Health Services Act.
--Measures to limit deceptive practices in federal elections.
--Improve care of Armed Forces members recovering from injuries.
--Allow state and local gov'ts to direct divestiture from companies with >$20 mil. invested in Iran's energy sector.
--Prohibit sale, transfer and export of mercury.
--Require POTUS to develop and implement comprehensive US strategy for eliminating extreme poverty/meeting Millennium Development Goals.
--Increase transparency and accountability in federal spending.
--Support research on microbicides to prevent transmission of AIDS and other diseases.
--Expand genomics research re: diagnostic and treatment methods.
--New procedures for discharging mentally ill Armed Forces members.
--Restore access of campus and safety-net clinics to discount drug prices.
--Support Nat'l Science Foundation development of a climate change education program.
--Education Dep't creation of public-access database of all available scholarships and other financial aid.
--Increase Public Health Services Act supports for SIDS and stillbirth resources.
--Coordinate the nat'l science, tech, engineering and math initiatives.



Both have demonstrated an ability to work across the aisle--whether and when that also constitutes significant breaks with their parties depends on the issue, and whether said breaks should be applauded depends on what you think was the right stance to take.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 08:38 AM   #847
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 07:31 PM
How white, working-class women view the candidates

By The Associated Press | September 15, 2008

An Associated Press-GfK Poll conducted Sept. 5-10 found John McCain, the Republican presidential nominee, taking a slim lead over Democrat Barack Obama. Results showed that blue-collar white women were more likely to see McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, as sharing their values and principles. They were 10 percentage points more likely than voters overall to say so about Palin.

How much do you think each candidate shares your own values and principles?

Non-college-educated women who are considered likely voters:

John McCain - 71%

Sarah Palin - 65%

Barack Obama - 52%

Joe Biden - 46%

Likely voters overall:

McCain - 67%

Palin - 55%

Obama - 58%

Biden - 47%
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 08:52 AM   #848
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,295
Local Time: 07:31 PM
Here we go, former McCain shill turns on him.

Quote:
I am one of the journalists accused over the years of being in the tank for McCain. Guilty. Those doing the accusing usually attributed my feelings to McCain being accessible. This is the journalist-as-puppy school of thought: Give us a treat, and we will leap into a politician's lap.

Not so. What impressed me most about McCain was the effect he had on his audiences, particularly young people. When he talked about service to a cause greater than oneself, he struck a chord. He expressed his message in words, but he packaged it in the McCain story -- that man, beaten to a pulp, who chose honor over freedom. This had nothing to do with access. It had to do with integrity.

...

And so McCain lied about his lying and maybe thinks that if he wins the election, he can -- as he did in South Carolina -- renounce who he was and what he did and resume his old persona. It won't work. Karl Marx got one thing right -- what he said about history repeating itself. Once is tragedy, a second time is farce. John McCain is both.
washingtonpost.com
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 09:16 AM   #849
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
How white, working-class women view the candidates

By The Associated Press | September 15, 2008

An Associated Press-GfK Poll conducted Sept. 5-10 found John McCain, the Republican presidential nominee, taking a slim lead over Democrat Barack Obama. Results showed that blue-collar white women were more likely to see McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, as sharing their values and principles. They were 10 percentage points more likely than voters overall to say so about Palin.

How much do you think each candidate shares your own values and principles?

Non-college-educated women who are considered likely voters:

John McCain - 71%

Sarah Palin - 65%

Barack Obama - 52%

Joe Biden - 46%

Likely voters overall:

McCain - 67%

Palin - 55%

Obama - 58%

Biden - 47%
Poor Joe. Do people not remember the Violence Against Women Act? Apparently not. Biden does more for women than Palin.
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 12:55 PM   #850
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,496
Local Time: 07:31 PM
eat it, Al Gore!

you might have invented the internets ... but John McCain invented the goddamn BLACKBERRY!!!!


Quote:
In a session with reporters today, (McCain economic adviser Douglas) Holtz-Eakin was asked:

Q: “What has he (McCain) done on (the) Commerce Committee (which McCain chaired from 2003-2005) that will convince Americans he understands financial markets?

Holtz-Eakin: “He didn’t have jurisdiction over financial markets, but first and foremost he did this (Holtz-Eakin holds up his BlackBerry), telecommunications of the United states, the premier innovation in the past 15 years comes right through the Commerce Committee. So you’re looking at the miracle that John McCain helped create.”

Q: Did he regulate the industry?

“He both regulated and de-regulated the industry as appropriate.”
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 02:19 PM   #851
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 07:31 PM
Wow, between being a POW (you may not have known this, but he was - shocking, I know), spending all that time crossing party lines, and being a maverick, he had time to work as a developer for RIM? Amazing.
__________________
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 03:39 PM   #852
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 08:31 PM
I guess that makes him ultimately responsible for the California train crash then, eh?
__________________
Utoo is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 04:02 PM   #853
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 08:31 PM
Obama says he's better on economy - CNN.com

Quote:
As part of his proposal to get out of the economic crisis, Obama said he is proposing a $50 billion Emergency Economic Plan to "jump-start job creation." Obama said the plan would save 1 million jobs by rebuilding infrastructure and repairing schools, among other things.

The senator from Illinois said the country also must continue to address the housing crisis and build a "21st-century regulatory framework." Obama vowed to "get serious" about regulatory oversight.

"If you're a financial institution that can borrow from the government, you should be subject to government oversight and supervision," he said.

Obama said the United States needs leadership to get the country out of its financial problems.

"I'll provide it, John McCain won't, and that's the choice for the American people in this election," he said.

But Jeffrey Sachs, a renowned economist and special adviser to the U.N. secretary-general, said neither candidate will be able to stop continued financial woes in the near future.

"I think right now that this is a recession that's going to happen," he said."I don't see anybody being able to stop that giant wave. The question is how we get out if it."

Sachs said he thinks Obama's plan is "closer" to being on target, with his calls for regulation. McCain also has started talking about increased regulation, but Sachs said McCain has "reinvented himself in the last 24 hours" with such talk.

As I've hinted at before, people criticize Obama for not having a clear economic plan (although McCain doesn't, either), but they miss the crucial foundation of the ideas that Obama presents. His plans are rooted in the very principles that helped steer us out of the Great Depression (aside from WWII, of course)---that is, the notion of government-funded organizations that not only create jobs, but also work toward the betterment of the infrastructure of the nation at the same time....helping the economy of today and nurturing that of tomorrow.

This "Emergency Economic Plan (EEP)," consisting of creating jobs that would fix deteriorating schools and other infrastructure, as well as the notion of creating and nurturing a whole industry of alternative energy, smell strongly of the Tennessee Valley Authority (Tennessee Valley Authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and other FDR-inspired Depression-busters.

I'd love to see Obama and his campaign relay this fact and elucidate the details to the public through commercials, speeches, etc. People criticize him for not having a plan, but the ideas are there. "They're real, and they're spectacular!"
__________________
Utoo is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 04:14 PM   #854
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,496
Local Time: 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
As I've hinted at before, people criticize Obama for not having a clear economic plan (although McCain doesn't, either), but they miss the crucial foundation of the ideas that Obama presents. His plans are rooted in the very principles that helped steer us out of the Great Depression (aside from WWII, of course)---that is, the notion of government-funded organizations that not only create jobs, but also work toward the betterment of the infrastructure of the nation at the same time....helping the economy of today and nurturing that of tomorrow.



welcome to the the 21st century. here's hoping the rust belt independent white people who've been brutalized by the republicans can put race aside and vote for the thuddingly obviously better candidate for their economic future.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-16-2008, 04:15 PM   #855
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Lila64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ♥Set List Lane♥
Posts: 52,710
Local Time: 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
Obama says he's better on economy - CNN.com




I'd love to see Obama and his campaign relay this fact and elucidate the details to the public through commercials, speeches, etc. People criticize him for not having a plan, but the ideas are there. "They're real, and they're spectacular!"


Seinfeld
__________________

__________________
Lila64 is offline  
 

Tags
mccain, obama, politics

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com