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Old 09-12-2008, 12:21 PM   #691
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Was Joe Biden "Lying" when he said the following things?


why don't you ask Joe Biden?

in the meantime, we'll continue to focus on the actual lies coming out of the McCain campaign -- Obama wants to teach sex to 5 year olds, he'll raise your taxes if you earn more than $42K, Palin was against the Bridge to Nowhere -- that are on actual issues.

enjoy your sideshow!
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:35 PM   #692
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why don't you ask Joe Biden?

in the meantime, we'll continue to focus on the actual lies ..., Palin was against the Bridge to Nowhere -- that are on actual issues.

enjoy your sideshow!
oh bother. :eyeroll:

"When it mattered, Gov. Palin stood up to Sen. Stevens and dealt the Bridge to Nowhere its death blow. This is something the U.S. Congress and senators Obama and Biden failed to do on multiple occasions.

And while it’s true that John McCain, unlike his running mate, has always opposed pork-barrel earmarks, Sarah Palin, unlike Obama and Biden, did the right thing when it counted most and stopped an egregious example of earmark abuse. And now, of course, Palin has joined McCain in calling for an end to earmarks.

Isn’t it better to come around to the right position than to keep on being wrong?"


<>
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:37 PM   #693
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sorry, that's too simplistic. Truman's war-related unpopularity was due to his removal of MacArthur from command of the Korean War due to MacArthur's absolutely insane idea of invading the North and being excited about nuking China. Truman rightly sacked the great WW2 hero, and rightly so, and at a cost to his popularity.
Sorry, but that is even more simplistic. Your forgetting that US approval for the war itself dropped to 37%. There was no single other issue that Americans were more upset about at the time than the war in Korea and they blamed Truman for it. Yes, his firing of MacArthur was part of that briefly, but it was far from being the only thing.


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there was also rapid inflation at the time and his desegregation of the armed forces caused him much antipathy from racist Southern Democrats. there was also a huge IRS scandal leading to the firing of 250 employees.
None of those issues comes even remotely close to having the impact that the Korean War had on Trumans popularity.

Oh and lets take a look at the inflation rate during that time:

1950 1.09%
1951 7.88%
1952 2.29%
1953 0.82%

Yes, 1951 you have a bit of a spike in inflation(nothing compared to the Carter Years), but the other years have historically very low rates of inflation. This definitely did not have anywhere near the impact that the Korean war did on Trumans popularity.

Ike was elected on a platform to end the war in Korea in 1952, not to reduce inflation or end desegregation. The Gallup polls show Truman's popularity heading south in relation to events in the Korean war. The Gallup poll also shows that most Americans thought the Korean war was a mistake in 1952, and naturally Truman got the blame for the war.
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:47 PM   #694
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and, naturally, there are a whole host of political issues that go into a presidential approval rating. the sinking of New Orleans had much to do with Bush's abysmal ratings as does the disaster in Iraq. likewise, the relative unpopularity of the stalemate of the Korean War had something to do with Truman's unpopularity, but it was also Truman's handling of the Korean War and his sacking of MacArthur that contributed to his 22%, as well as inflation and IRS scandals.

so, again, saying that Harry Truman is a hero because he suffered for prosecuting an unpopular war doesn't in any way create a parallel to GWB, it doesn't redeem the war from being at the very least horribly mismanaged and at worst another mistake that's lead to the situation with NoKo and 50+ years of troops stationed in Korea.

in fact, what actually was courageous about Truman was the sacking of MacArthur. would that GWB had sacked Rumsfeld ...
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:48 PM   #695
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1951 7.88%


Yes, 1951 you have a bit of a spike in inflation(nothing compared to the Carter Years), but the other years have historically very low rates of inflation. This definitely did not have anywhere near the impact that the Korean war did on Trumans popularity.


Truman's peak unpopularity, 22% was achieved in January of 1952.

look at the 1951 inflation rate.
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:50 PM   #696
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in the meantime, we'll continue to focus on the actual lies coming out of the McCain campaign -- Obama wants to teach sex to 5 year olds
I've yet to hear how this is incorrect. I've read part of the bill. It talks about the different body parts, their names, how people have parts that "feel good when touched," and that there are gay people that attracted to people of the same sex. He wants to teach this to very, very young children. That's a fact. I don't see a lie.
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:54 PM   #697
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I've read part of the bill.
You might want to try and read ALL of it. Not just the portions they post on Rush websites.

Your understanding of it is just sad...
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:54 PM   #698
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I've yet to hear how this is incorrect. I've read part of the bill. It talks about the different body parts, their names, how people have parts that "feel good when touched," and that there are gay people that attracted to people of the same sex. He wants to teach this to very, very young children. That's a fact. I don't see a lie.


dude, you can go back and read earlier posts on this topic.

it's all deemed "age appropriate" and in kindergarten it focuses on what is and what is not appropriate touching.

if you want to slam Obama from wanting kids to learn how to protect themselves from sexual predators.

is there something wrong with a 5 year old understanding that, yes, sometimes a woman can love a woman or a man can love a man?

i once had a four year old tell me this.
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:58 PM   #699
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Yep, the 527s really have been unleashed.

YouTube - Planned Parenthood Action Fund - Sexual Abuse
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:12 PM   #700
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i remember being so happy that Obama and McCain were going to be the nominees. i thought we'd have a serious discussion on serious issues.

guess not.

thanks, Rovians!
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:13 PM   #701
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Truman's peak unpopularity, 22% was achieved in January of 1952.

look at the 1951 inflation rate.

Truman's popularity was already below 30% by January 1951. Look at the 1950 inflation rate.
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:18 PM   #702
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and, naturally, there are a whole host of political issues that go into a presidential approval rating. the sinking of New Orleans had much to do with Bush's abysmal ratings as does the disaster in Iraq. likewise, the relative unpopularity of the stalemate of the Korean War had something to do with Truman's unpopularity, but it was also Truman's handling of the Korean War and his sacking of MacArthur that contributed to his 22%, as well as inflation and IRS scandals.

so, again, saying that Harry Truman is a hero because he suffered for prosecuting an unpopular war doesn't in any way create a parallel to GWB, it doesn't redeem the war from being at the very least horribly mismanaged and at worst another mistake that's lead to the situation with NoKo and 50+ years of troops stationed in Korea.

in fact, what actually was courageous about Truman was the sacking of MacArthur. would that GWB had sacked Rumsfeld ...
Most Americans don't considered the Korean war to have been a mistake despite the fact that they did in 1952. Ike was not elected to bring down inflation or end desegregation, he was elected to end the war in Korea. Were already well on the way for a GWB/Truman parallel no matter how much liberals fuss and fume at the idea.
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:22 PM   #703
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is there something wrong with a 5 year old understanding that, yes, sometimes a woman can love a woman or a man can love a man?

Why do you want to turn children gay? Why do you want to spread the homo agenda?
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:25 PM   #704
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Truman's popularity was already below 30% by January 1951. Look at the 1950 inflation rate.




its okay. you can admit you're wrong. i won't trash you and taunt you over it (like you do to others).
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:26 PM   #705
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Most Americans don't considered the Korean war to have been a mistake despite the fact that they did in 1952. Ike was not elected to bring down inflation or end desegregation, he was elected to end the war in Korea. Were already well on the way for a GWB/Truman parallel no matter how much liberals fuss and fume at the idea.


then or now? most Americans then considered the Korean War to have been terribly mismanaged, and most Americans now consider it to have turned out to be a stalemate that's lead to a dangerous situation along the 38th parallel. but it's history and we deal with it.

and most smart Americans know that proxy wars with the Soviet Union never go well.
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