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Old 09-10-2008, 12:16 AM   #481
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Why push it down to 5 year olds??


why not at least 5th or 6th grade ?
Are you being purposely obtuse with respect to the parental opt-out clause?

I think if the shoe was on the other foot, you'd be RIPPING Obama for this ad, given the petty, insignificant things that you have lambasted him for, including incorrect ones (visiting the troops in Germany being a shining example).
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:16 AM   #482
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You're the one asking about common sense. It would be interpreted by school boards, people who run school districts. Do you honestly think that any school board in America is going to give the ok to show kindergardeners condoms and diagrams of sexual organs and all that? Do you? Of course you don't because the first school board to do so would be the subject of outrage and maybe even legal action brought about by angry parents.
No, I don't think that. You're missing the point. When then? 6th grade? 8th? High School? Who determines that?

You guys all seem like your going to defend Obama to the bitter end, willing to overlook just about everything along the way.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:18 AM   #483
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Including set age ranges would likely expose the legislation to possible constitutional issues (arbitrariness).
So did I miss something? Is K-12 not an age range? Did I read it incorrectly when it appears that it was originally 6-12?

Thats not a good argument anitram
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:18 AM   #484
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Come on, what ever happened to common sense? Write legislation with how is supposed to be implemented. There is no reason for it to be that vague and no for there to be a range of K-12 for sex ed.
Then, legal speech in Germany is more different to that in the US than I thought it was.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:19 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by TheEdge U2JT View Post
No, I don't think that. You're missing the point. When then? 6th grade? 8th? High School? Who determines that?

You guys all seem like your going to defend Obama to the bitter end, willing to overlook just about everything along the way.
Still school boards. Middle schools and high schools have them too.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:22 AM   #486
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Are you being purposely obtuse
I used to think he was playing devil's advocate, but I'm not sure anymore...
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:23 AM   #487
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Again if Obama stands by the legislation

why did it get tabled (killed) in the Ill State Senate?

and not even come up for a vote?
Well since you want me to do your legal research for you....

The Illinois Senate tabling rules (at the time it was Rule 5-4, now you will find it in Rule 7) clearly states that the SPONSOR of the bill requests tabling.

Senate Sponsors
Sen. Carol Ronen - M. Maggie Crotty - Susan Garrett - Iris Y. Martinez - Jeffrey M. Schoenberg

None of these were Obama.

But you can explain to me how he should have prevented tabling contrary to the rules.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:25 AM   #488
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So did I miss something? Is K-12 not an age range? Did I read it incorrectly when it appears that it was originally 6-12?

Thats not a good argument anitram
No you know what, it's a good argument, it's that you are clearly uninformed.

K-12 sets out the cohort to whom the bill in its entirety applies. That is not arbitrary.

You asked about specifically setting up age ranges at which ___ or ___ can be taught. THAT is arguably arbitrary and many a statutory provision has been stricken down this way by the courts.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:41 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by TheEdge U2JT View Post

You guys all seem like your going to defend Obama to the bitter end, willing to overlook just about everything along the way.
You hit the nail right on the head,they just want something there,just for it to be there. He talks out of his ass is what he does,he only wants you to "believe" that he can actually do something.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:55 AM   #490
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You hit the nail right on the head,they just want something there,just for it to be there. He talks out of his ass is what he does,he only wants you to "believe" that he can actually do something.
Thanks. At least there are a few of us in here that get it.
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:00 AM   #491
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You hit the nail right on the head,they just want something there,just for it to be there. He talks out of his ass is what he does,he only wants you to "believe" that he can actually do something.
Well show me why I should believe in your canidate. You drop in every once in awhile call a few folks liars and accuse groups of "just wanting something there", but why not actually discuss the issues? You attack(usually baseless) but never give any reason why your canidate is better...
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:00 AM   #492
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I'm beginning to wonder if there's any point in attempting to discuss the campaign in this forum at all anymore.
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:01 AM   #493
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I'm beginning to wonder if there's any point in attempting to discuss the campaign in this forum at all anymore.
No, I think I'd be better off cleaning my apartment.
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:09 AM   #494
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I'm beginning to wonder if there's any point in attempting to discuss the campaign in this forum at all anymore.


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Old 09-10-2008, 01:14 AM   #495
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Hmm... I was just going to clarify my use of explicit from a few days ago but upon reading the past few pages here I see it's completely useless.
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