US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7

[Dreadsox]

The media (aka McCain's base) is slowly turning on him. I am really glad that Joe Klein of Time is calling McCain out. Regardless of the fact I disagreed with McCain always on about 95%+ of issues, at least I didn't think that he lacked character. I no longer believe he is a man of character or a man of principles. And now people are starting to notice.

.[/url]

I am glad to see that you are here to balance the right wing press.

 

[anitram]

I am glad to see that you are here to balance the right wing press.

Yes, because we all know that JOE KLEIN of all people leans left. Hahaha!!

 

[Dreadsox]

Yes, because we all know that JOE KLEIN of all people leans left. Hahaha!!

You got my humor Ewwwww...New Yorker

 

[Irvine511]

are we going to ever talk about the connections between the McCain campaign and the Georgian government? what was Saakashvili promised?

While Aide Advised McCain, His Firm Lobbied for Georgia
Campaign Dismisses Timing of Phone Call, Contract

By Matthew Mosk and Jeffrey H. Birnbaum
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, August 13, 2008; A03

Sen. John McCain's top foreign policy adviser prepped his boss for an April 17 phone call with the president of Georgia and then helped the presumptive Republican presidential nominee prepare a strong statement of support for the fledgling republic.

The day of the call, a lobbying firm partly owned by the adviser, Randy Scheunemann, signed a $200,000 contract to continue providing strategic advice to the Georgian government in Washington.

The McCain campaign said Georgia's lobbying contract with Orion Strategies had no bearing on the candidate's decision to speak with President Mikheil Saakashvili and did not influence his statement. "The Embassy of Georgia requested the call," said campaign spokesman Brian Rogers.

But ethics experts have raised concerns about former lobbyists for foreign governments providing advice to presidential candidates about those same countries. "The question is, who is the client? Is the adviser loyal to income from a foreign client, or is he loyal to the candidate he is working for now?" said James Thurber, a lobbying expert at American University. "It's dangerous if you're getting advice from people who are very close to countries on one side or another of a conflict."

At the time of McCain's call, Scheunemann had formally ceased his own lobbying work for Georgia, according to federal disclosure reports. But he was still part of Orion Strategies, which had only two lobbyists, himself and Mike Mitchell.

Scheunemann remained with the firm for another month, until May 15, when the McCain campaign imposed a tough new anti-lobbyist policy and he was required to separate himself from the company.

Rogers said Scheunemann "receives no compensation of any type from Orion Strategies and has not since May 15, 2008." Scheunemann declined to be interviewed for this story.

As a private lobbyist trying to influence lawmakers and Bush administration staffers, Scheunemann at times relied on his access to McCain in his work for foreign clients on Capitol Hill. He and his partner reported 71 phone conversations and meetings with McCain and his top advisers since 2004 on behalf of foreign clients, including Georgia, according to forms they filed with the Justice Department.

The contacts often focused on Georgia's aspirations to join NATO and on legislative proposals, including a measure co-sponsored by McCain that supported Georgia's position on South Ossetia, one of the Georgian regions taken over by Russia this weekend.

Another measure lobbied by Orion and co-sponsored by McCain, the NATO Freedom Consolidation Act of 2006, would have authorized a $10 million grant for Georgia.

For months while McCain's presidential campaign was gearing up, Scheunemann held dual roles, advising the candidate on foreign policy while working as Georgia's lobbyist. Between Jan. 1, 2007, and May 15, 2008, the campaign paid Scheunemann nearly $70,000 to provide foreign policy advice. During the same period, the government of Georgia paid his firm $290,000 in lobbying fees.

Since 2004, Orion has collected $800,000 from the government of Georgia.

Rogers said Orion's representation of Georgia had no bearing on McCain's decision to speak with Saakashvili in April. "The Embassy of Georgia requested the call because of Georgian concerns over recent Russian actions dealing with South Ossetia and Abkhazia," he said.

McCain has said that he has worked closely with Georgia and its top officials since the mid-1990s. On the campaign trail yesterday, McCain referred to Saakashvili as a close friend.

But Rogers acknowledged that "Scheunemann and others on the foreign policy staff are involved in call requests and statements on foreign policy issues."

After the April call, McCain issued a statement that day voicing support for Georgia's position.

"We must not allow Russia to believe it has a free hand to engage in policies that undermine Georgian sovereignty," McCain said in the statement. "Georgia has acted with restraint in its response and should continue to do so."

Melanie Sloan, executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said it may be impossible to know whether Scheunemann's advice to McCain was truly unvarnished.

"The question is, whose views are you really espousing?" Sloan said. "Are they really your own views, or are they the views that are bought and paid for by the clients of your top aides? McCain probably would be sympathetic to Georgia regardless, but having a guy like Scheunemann as a top aide raises questions."

Hari Sevugan, a spokesman for the Democratic candidate, Sen. Barack Obama, said Scheunemann's business ties to Georgia raise questions about how much he influenced McCain's position on the Georgia conflict.

"It's these sorts of appearances of a conflict of interest that are a natural consequence of having a campaign run by lobbyists, staffed by lobbyists and being ensconced in a lobbyist culture for over a quarter of a century," Sevugan said.

 

[anitram]

I think McCain has a problem here. Clearly he has some ties to the Georgia government. This in conjunction with him wanting to find a new boogeyman and seem presidential likely played a role in how vehemently he responded. But the thing is, the Russians don't want to go to war here and they have little interest in annexing any territory or expanding. They were perfectly happy to enter a truce on their terms once they rolled through and humiliated the Georgian president. This isn't the fight that McCain is really looking for, but now he's smack dab in the middle of it. Sending his representatives there - what the hell? Where is Condolleezza Rice? Talk about incompetence. So he's one foot in this fight but with nothing to gain and can be made to look extremely stupid by the Russians who suddenly seem almost politically reasonable with this quick "resolution".

 

[anitram]

What do you make of this?

According to an analysis of campaign contributions by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, Democrat Barack Obama has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than has Republican John McCain, and the fiercely anti-war Ron Paul, though he suspended his campaign for the Republican nomination months ago, has received more than four times McCain's haul.

 

[Irvine511]

What do you make of this?

John McCain is a maverick who puts his country first.

 

[Bluer White]

Well, is anyone supporting Russia in this? Is Senator Obama supporting the Russians?

 

[Irvine511]

Well, is anyone supporting Russia in this? Is Senator Obama supporting the Russians?

is this a serious question?

i don't think anyone "supports" Russia, and the framing of the issue provoked by the question above is objectionable. i think most people realize this is more than unprovoked aggression by a totalitarian empire bend on world domination and that if Georgia falls, Poland is next.

don't forget Poland.

 

[Bluer White]

Well, of course no one is supporting Russia on this. Which begs the question, why is anyone hosing McCain on this issue?"


Is Obama's position that much different?
Obama Emerges to Talk About Georgia - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com

 

[anitram]

Have you read McCain's rhetoric here? If you think that it sounds anything like Obama's measured response, then I don't know what to tell you. Things like:

"He told President Dimitri Medvedev and Vladimir Putin, the prime minister, that their actions would have "severe, long-term negative consequences" for their relations with the United States and Europe and outlined a plan of action for the West to isolate and punish Russia."

And:

"...Russian aggression against Georgia is both a matter of urgent moral and strategic importance to the United States of America."

Nevermind calling for an immediate meeting of NATO. Nevermind sending a delegation of his election team to Georgia (how is this any of his business as a candidate?), etc.

 

[anitram]

A few more gems from McCain on this issue:

We, we will decide in subsequent days as whether degree of provocation and whe-- who was right and who was wrong.

McCain has cited Russian "behavior" as justification to create a "League of Democracies" — a radical plan with a "hidden agenda" to "kill the United Nations" and one that has been "greeted with alarm by some Republican supporters and wariness by important U.S. allies."

WASHINGTON (AFP) — Republican White House contender John McCain said Tuesday he would support Georgia's bid to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) if he is elected president in November.

"I would move forward at the right time with the application for membership in NATO by Georgia," McCain told Fox News television.

McCain, 71, also reiterated his call for Russia to be kicked out of the Group of Eight most industrialized nations.

"Russia no longer shares any of the values and principles of the G-8, so they should be excluded," he said.

Do any of these overreactions sound like anything Obama has been saying?

 

[Vincent Vega]

for their relations with the United States and Europe

Cool, now he speaks for us also or did he at least have the decency to talk with European leaders first?


Sorry, forgot, we are just some poor socialists.

 

[BVS]

Sorry, forgot, we are just some poor socialists.

And don't forget it...

 

[Vincent Vega]

I won't! Less than two days and I will be free as I will have entered the United States.

 

[Dreadsox]

Well, is anyone supporting Russia in this? Is Senator Obama supporting the Russians?

I think people in this forum may find McCain extreme in his response....

I do not I think he is dead on and I wish Obama would tone it up a notch.

 

[anitram]

I won't! Less than two days and I will be free as I will have entered the United States.

I have never been so free as I am now, Vincent. You will love it. Let us all know how great the feeling is.

 

[U2democrat]

I can't wait to hear about your experience either! I hope you enjoy it

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Huffington Post August 14th

So, on last night's Larry King Live, one of the things that Paul Waldman brought up as a way of demonstrating Obama Nation author Jerome Corsi's lack of credibility was his past embrace of bigotry and general scumbaggery, as documented by "a whole series of bigoted and hateful posts" that Corsi "put up on right-wing Web sites." None of which Corsi denied! But, Corsi defended himself by shooting back that Waldman had failed to mention "all my apologies for those statements."

Well, like just about everything else that dribbles out of Corsi's cakehole, you can take those apologies and discount them entirely, because this Sunday, he is set to make an appearance on the well-named "The Political Cesspool" - which, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, is "an overtly racist, anti-Semitic radio show hosted by self-avowed white nationalist James Edwards." In the past, the show has welcomed some marquee names in the hate movement, including "Christian Identity pastor Pete Peters, Holocaust denier Mark Weber and former Klan boss David Duke."

If you can bear a look at some of the show's Great Works, you can do so here. This is how they roll in the Breakaway Republic of Swiftboatistan, all with the clucking approval of mainstream political media darling Mary Matalin, who regards these excrementalist dolts as "great scholars."

Media Matters - Despite "all my apologies" for bigoted comments, Corsi reportedly scheduled to appear on "pro-White" radio show

UPDATE: Sam Stein reports that he has received an email from Winston Smith, confirming Corsi's appearance on the show. Smith's email reads as follows: "Dr. Corsi's first appearance on our broadcast was very well received. On Sunday's show he'll be talking about his new book about Barak [sic] Hussein Obama. It'll be a fascinating converstaion [sic], and we hope you'll listen in."

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

AP
Military donations favor Obama over McCain

Thursday August 14
Troops donate more campaign money to Obama than McCain, despite McCain's military record

WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. soldiers have donated more presidential campaign money to Democrat Barack Obama than to Republican John McCain, a reversal of previous campaigns in which military donations tended to favor GOP White House hopefuls, a nonpartisan group reported Thursday.

Troops serving abroad have given nearly six times as much money to Obama's presidential campaign as they have to McCain's, the Center for Responsive Politics said.

The results also are striking because they favored Obama, who never has served in the military. McCain meanwhile, is a decorated war veteran who spent nearly five years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. The Arizona senator graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy and had a 22-year career as a naval aviator.

Obama has opposed the war in Iraq and says he would withdraw combat troops within 16 months. McCain has been a steadfast supporter of the war, saying he would withdraw the troops only when conditions on the ground warrant it.

"Obama will work tirelessly to uphold this nation's sacred trust with its veterans, to ensure they are not forgotten after they return home and he will provide our troops with the leadership they deserve, as well as the support they and their families need," Obama spokesman Nick Shapiro said.

McCain's campaign played down the significance of the donations.

"John McCain has been endorsed by more retired admirals and generals than Barack Obama has military donors," McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb said in a statement.

"We feel confident that many U.S. troops stationed overseas will support John McCain in the election this fall, but we suspect most are too busy doing the important work of defending this country than to make political contributions," Goldfarb said.

The report tracked donations of $200 or more. It found that 859 members of the military donated a total of $335,536 to Obama. McCain received $280,513 from 558 military donors.

Among soldiers serving overseas at the time of their donations, 134 gave a total of $60,642 to Obama while 26 gave a total of $10,665 to McCain. That was less than the amount received by Republican Ron Paul, who collected $45,512 from 99 soldiers serving abroad, the report said.

 

[anitram]

Why do the troops hate the troops?

 

[Irvine511]

I think people in this forum may find McCain extreme in his response....

I do not I think he is dead on and I wish Obama would tone it up a notch.

would you want NATO to go to war to defend Georgia?

can we back up McCain's rhetoric and put our money where his mouth is?

 

[U2democrat]

Apparently the troops drank the Obama-celebrity kool-aid.

 

[anitram]

McCain:

"I know I speak for every American when I say to him, 'Today we are all Georgians.'"

Talk about rhetoric. He's fired up and ready to go!!

 

[Irvine511]

i wonder how many more conflicts will get McCain excited ... we have potential conflicts with Russia, Iran, China, Iraq, Afghanistan. there's also Burma and Darfur.

and what's quite true is that there are sympathetic players in all of these conflicts. who doesn't feel for the suffering Georgians or Burmese or the Iraqis?

but do we solve these conflicts, and help suffering people, by talking tough and seeking to punish the aggressors? is that really the best way to conduct foreign policy, with a square jaw and a pointed finger and an unflinching sense of right and wrong and if you're not with us you're against us?

 

[Irvine511]

McCain:



Talk about rhetoric. He's fired up and ready to go!!

ooh, ooh, i got another one:

My friends, we have reached a crisis, the first probably serious crisis internationally since the end of the Cold War. This is an act of aggression.

now that, my friends, is the sign of a true Cold Warrior, a true politician of the 70s and 80s. whether in figure skating or cold war fighting, it will always be the Russians who need defeating.

it's as if he's forgotten about Kuwait. or Iraq. or Afghanistan. or Bosnia.

 

[BVS]

John McCain sued over use of Running on Empty in anti-Obama ad

"Singer-songwriter Jackson Browne has sued John McCain over the use of his hit Running on Empty in an ad that attacks presidential candidate Barack Obama.
...
The suit notes that other musicians, including ABBA and John Cougar Mellencamp, have asked McCain to stop using their work."


Awww, even his favorite, ABBA is suing him...

Tough break pal.

 

[Dreadsox]

I spell appeasement in here.

 

[Irvine511]

I spell appeasement in here.

some smell it everywhere!

 

[anitram]

I generally don't care one iota what a religious leader thinks about a politician and would prefer they mind their own business. I'm posting this only because I'm not sure I've read such a direct criticism/attack against a candidate recently. Also it bears noting that the Reverend in question is a close friend of the Bush family and in fact, presided over Jenna Bush's marriage ceremony just this past spring.

"Well, I don't know a lot about John McCain's family history, I do know, however, that as recently as last week I think it was, the Senator made a comment in South Dakota regarding his wife entering some Buffalo Chips contest which is this topless deal and if she were to enter she would probably win it and my personal opinion and based on my understanding of the Christian faith, that's not not, N-O-T, not the type of expression that a presidential candidate, or anyone for that matter who is a follower of the Christian faith, ought to make," said the Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell. "I don't know if that is a perfect case in point, but it surely does help to juxtapose the DNA of Senator Obama, if you would, versus the DNA of Senator McCain."

His marital history has been duly recorded," said Caldwell, referring to McCain, "and as recently as yesterday I think it is, our pastor from Saddleback, Rick Warren indicated that he would not feel comfortable voting for an adulterer and I don't know exactly to whom he was referring but I think the data speaks for itself, and again, at the end of the day, and I really appreciate you raising this because, at the end of the day again I think the American public deserves full revelation of the candidate's character and competency. Character and competency. So, whatever questions that should be asked that would give the voting public an indication as to who they are and what they've done should be fair game."

At ABC.