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Old 08-31-2008, 11:06 PM   #841
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The student, family should plan for it, I did.

My 15 nieces and nephews are planning with their families, too.
My parents came to this country as refugees in their 40s.

It cost me $75K to go to law school (because professional degrees in Canada are deregulated so that we now have the American way too) and another $25K for my undergraduate degree. That one was reduced because I got a lot of scholarship money.

For law school I got some grants, about $22K of which I don't have to pay back. Thankfully I worked at a very good firm so that I could graduate with about $18K of debt.

My parents paid for my entire first degree. Considering they came to this country with the clothes on their back, I am eternally grateful. They are proud, hard-working people who sacrificed everything for my brother and I so we could go to the best schools and do multiple degrees.

They did not have the benefit of your planning. Life is not as generous to everybody.
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:06 PM   #842
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sometimes I wish I was born in Canada

you guys do a lot of things right.

Our American system is what it is.

I was in college in the 70s.


You told me a BS and BA is worthless.

Someone else told me he hoped Obama would get elected becasse that would determine if he could go to Penn State.

That it would cost $100,000.


The Government has never paid for anything beyond high school.

I worked all through high school and had two jobs when I went to college.

We don't have $100,000 to pay for college student's worthless BS and BAs.

The student, family should plan for it, I did.

My 15 nieces and nephews are planning with their families, too.


I know it is not the Canadian way.
I brought up my college example to ask questions (which Anitram answered) about how the candidates' decisions would have an effect on college financial aid and how long it would take to have an effect. I never stated that Obama would help and McCain wouldn't. I merely stated that the election could have an effect on the issue, and with my financial situation hanging in the balance right now, that even a small change could go a long way.
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:07 PM   #843
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other than Wright?

Twenty years of going to his church? That is a long long time to be associated with an extremist. A long time.

Why should I not be weighing that into my decision?

It is a LONG lapse in judgement. It must have been since now that Obama is running for president he is disasociated himself from them.

And he has exposed his children to these extremists...my goodness...as a father I have an issue with it.
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:08 PM   #844
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Obama was associated with Avery? Yes or no? Do you believe that bombing was an appropriate activity to engage in?
The only "association" with Ayers was that they both sat on a board for a poverty relief fund and that Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election campaign. For you to insinuate that it's a troublesome "assocation" is tenuous at best. And for the record, Ayers was never convicted, and Obama was 8 years old when it happened, so... it's hardly like Obama was chumming up with an active terrorist.


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AS for the MCCain POW thing? I do not think your joke was about that. I did not take it that way, and still do not.
Well my joke was about that, and I'm sorry you took it the wrong way. My intention was not to claim that McCain is a big fat liar all the time, my intention was to show that when McCain is confronted with a question that may put him in a negative light, he seems to fall back on his time as a POW to dodge the question completely while simultaneously getting a bit of a sympathy response.

In that case, we were talking about the deceipt in the "Tiny" ad, and so lying was the appropriate blank to fill in to his template for bringing up his POW status. You could take out lying and replace it with "house" and it would read almost verbatim to his actual responses.
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:09 PM   #845
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Twenty years of going to his church? That is a long long time to be associated with an extremist. A long time.

Why should I not be weighing that into my decision?

It is a LONG lapse in judgement. It must have been since now that Obama is running for president he is disasociated himself from them.

And he has exposed his children to these extremists...my goodness...as a father I have an issue with it.


that's certainly your perogative.

but you're the one who wanted to stick to the issues, right?
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:10 PM   #846
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In that case, we were talking about the deceipt in the "Tiny" ad, and so lying was the appropriate blank to fill in to his template for bringing up his POW status. You could take out lying and replace it with "house" and it would read almost verbatim to his actual responses.

which is why that post, for me, worked as satire.
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:10 PM   #847
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And he has exposed his children to these extremists...my goodness...as a father I have an issue with it.
Who are these extremists? The only one I know of that he "exposed" to his kids was Rev. Wright. Who are the other numerous extremists who he was best friends with?
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:10 PM   #848
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
sometimes I wish I was born in Canada

you guys do a lot of things right.

Our American system is what it is.

I was in college in the 70s.


You told me a BS and BA is worthless.

Someone else told me he hoped Obama would get elected becasse that would determine if he could go to Penn State.

That it would cost $100,000.


The Government has never paid for anything beyond high school.

I worked all through high school and had two jobs when I went to college.

We don't have $100,000 to pay for college student's worthless BS and BAs.

The student, family should plan for it, I did.

My 15 nieces and nephews are planning with their families, too.


I know it is not the Canadian way.
so, my parents should have had $300,000 of disposable income lying around for the three of us?
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:21 PM   #849
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
My parents came to this country as refugees in their 40s.

It cost me $75K to go to law school (because professional degrees in Canada are deregulated so that we now have the American way too) and another $25K for my undergraduate degree. That one was reduced because I got a lot of scholarship money.

For law school I got some grants, about $22K of which I don't have to pay back. Thankfully I worked at a very good firm so that I could graduate with about $18K of debt.

My parents paid for my entire first degree. Considering they came to this country with the clothes on their back, I am eternally grateful. They are proud, hard-working people who sacrificed everything for my brother and I so we could go to the best schools and do multiple degrees.

They did not have the benefit of your planning. Life is not as generous to everybody.

That is very commendable

you should be proud of your accomplishments
educationally and vocationally you are way ahead of me.

I am happy that things have worked out ok for your family.



I have my own family story.
But, I don't think it matters

I guess we all have our family stories.

I think our obligations should be:
first to ourselves.
then our families,
then others.

And we should do the best we can for all three.
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:23 PM   #850
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that's certainly your perogative.

but you're the one who wanted to stick to the issues, right?
Hey, I guess it is fair game since there is more credibility to it than your baby issue, which is based in speculation.

It really is not my issue, but, hey since the baby issue is fair game, I am guessing you will not find it out of bounds? Or is it?
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:24 PM   #851
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so, my parents should have had $300,000 of disposable income lying around for the three of us?
who said everyone gets to go to Penn St for four years?

I did not get to.
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:26 PM   #852
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who said everyone gets to go to Penn St for four years?

I did not get to.
so educational opportunity should be limited to one's income bracket?
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:28 PM   #853
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Hey, I guess it is fair game since there is more credibility to it than your baby issue, which is based in speculation.

It really is not my issue, but, hey since the baby issue is fair game, I am guessing you will not find it out of bounds? Or is it?


here's the thing.

none of this will affect how i vote.

what i've always found interesting, since i began posting in here, is how the game is played. i toss things like this around for conversation not because i think they should affect how people vote, but because i find the process fascinating, and the calculations and gambles and decisions and the "but how will it play in Peoria" fascinating as well.

i've said, repeatedly, that what matters to me about the Palin pick is not Palin, but what it says about McCain.

McCain could have picked Al Gore, and i'd still be voting for Obama.

i understand that my tendency to want to wade into weird waters makes it easy for others to caricature me, or to make me into a totem for those they dislike,

but i don't think that's fair or accurate.
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:33 PM   #854
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With every decision people make there is a likelyhood that some will like it, some will not, and some will say who gives a shite.

I lean more towards she is a mixed bag of a decision. If he were 44 I would not be so worried about it.
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:43 PM   #855
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so educational opportunity should be limited to one's income bracket?
what would you suggest ?
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