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Old 08-31-2008, 10:22 PM   #796
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
we know Obama's positions

do we

they are not locked in



against gas tax holiday
now in favor

against FISA amnesty
voted for it

no off shore drilling
now some off shore drilling

no full seating of Florida or Michigan, rules must be enforced
full seating of Florida and Michigan, rules not enforced


I can show you where Palin has been more consistent in 2 years
than Obama has been in 6 months
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:23 PM   #797
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If you seriously think that this was a spur of the moment decision by McCain, rather than a decision made after all kinds of discussions involving probably hundreds of Republican strategists, policy wonks and PR experts, then you are kidding yourself.

Frankly, it's much more likely that McCain didn't even want someone like Palin on his ticket, but was convinced by his advisors.


she wasn't extensively vetted. it was startling to most Republicans. it has caught everyone by surprise.

i am not kidding myself. not at all.

i will say it again -- i think it was a media stunt.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:23 PM   #798
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She should not have to prove shit. And it seriously disturbs me that anyone who is serious about this election would be bringing this up as a talking point.
I think the idea is that it's less of a talking point against her as a person. Rather, it's more of a laugh that a party that prides itself on "family values" and chides others for their lack of them, would be shown so strikingly that it is in reality no better than anyone else. I hope that, true or false, it is not used against her in a personal way, though I'm sure it would be. If the story is true, I find what she allegedly did to be both somewhat honorable and sad in a poignant way. But for the party--one that preaches abstinence, "values," and a whole list of other lofty issues--I think a good chuckle would be deserved.

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Could you repost the story, because it makes more sense for a woman at that age to have a child with a chromosomal disorder than the daughter.
Actually, even though women over 35yrs have a higher risk of having a baby born with DS, more children with DS are born to women under 35--simply because they have more children.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:23 PM   #799
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Frankly, it's much more likely that McCain didn't even want someone like Palin on his ticket, but was convinced by his advisors.
Wasn't all the media reporting that Rove was strongly pushing for Romney?

I think that McCain can't stand him and that's why Romney wasn't picked. The feeling is likely mutual.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:25 PM   #800
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So should I take my chance on a Woman VP getting EXPERIENCE as a VP over Obama who is at the top of the ticket?

Seems like you have helped me change my mind. I may be safer with the inexperience on the VP end of things.


so you'd vote for McCain who obviously doesn't have these issues?

you'd vote for a man who's putting someone even more inexperienced than the (in your judgment) inexperienced Obama just a heartbeat away from the presidency?

the fact is, Obama is a known quantity who has thought deeply and seriously about issues, has said what he will do, and has managed a multimillion dollar organization that defeated the Clintons.

Palin has no such paper trail, there is no evidence that she's given any serious thought at all to foreign policy.

though it sounds like what i originally thought about the pick -- that McCain is engaging in some weird sort of judo -- is working on you.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:25 PM   #801
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she wasn't extensively vetted. it was startling to most Republicans. it has caught everyone by surprise.

i am not kidding myself. not at all.

i will say it again -- i think it was a media stunt.
I think he sounded out plenty of people, but I would grant you that he ultimately discarded most of their advice.

I disagree with your statement that it was a rash choice. It was a calculated gambler's choice, which is not the same thing, at all, as rash.

It was a risky choice, granted, but it could pay off big - or alternatively, lose him the election big.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:27 PM   #802
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It was a risky choice, granted, but it could pay off big - or alternatively, lose him the election big.


sounds like the invasion of Iraq.

is this who we want making these decisions?
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:27 PM   #803
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I can show you where Palin has been more consistent in 2 years
than Obama has been in 6 months

you've convinced me

that Obama has a record

and Palin does not.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:30 PM   #804
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sounds like the invasion of Iraq.

is this who we want making these decisions?
My point of view has always been that I am sceptical of interventionist foreign policy.

So, no, I don't want McCain making these decisions - but I wouldn't want, say, Hillary Clinton making them either. Obama may or may not be better, but he's completely untested, thus far, every bit as untested as Palin.

One thing Obama DOES have going for him, from the point of view of anti-war conservatives, is that he voted against the Iraq invasion.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:30 PM   #805
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I think he sounded out plenty of people, but I would grant you that he ultimately discarded most of their advice.

I disagree with your statement that it was a rash choice. It was a calculated gambler's choice, which is not the same thing, at all, as rash.

It was a risky choice, granted, but it could pay off big - or alternatively, lose him the election big.
I agree

I saw something where she had mentioned it back in April.


Just because McCain knows how to keep things on the down low
does not mean it did not happen.

I prefer this style
over ginning it all up like the Obama people did with all the hype and text crap.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:31 PM   #806
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so you'd vote for McCain who obviously doesn't have these issues?

you'd vote for a man who's putting someone even more inexperienced than the (in your judgment) inexperienced Obama just a heartbeat away from the presidency?

the fact is, Obama is a known quantity who has thought deeply and seriously about issues, has said what he will do, and has managed a multimillion dollar organization that defeated the Clintons.

Palin has no such paper trail, there is no evidence that she's given any serious thought at all to foreign policy.

though it sounds like what i originally thought about the pick -- that McCain is engaging in some weird sort of judo -- is working on you.
Obama's known quantities...his propensity to surround himself with what I considener "extremist" views...concerns me.

That propensity concerns me more than her inexperience.

McCain has thought deeply about issues as well. That and 10 cents will get me...well...nothing in this country...hehe Damn economy.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:31 PM   #807
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Obama may or may not be better, but he's completely untested, thus far, every bit as untested as Palin.

but we have ample evidence that he takes these decisions very, very seriously, and we have ample evidence that he makes informed, thought out, cautious decisions.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:32 PM   #808
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Wouldn't that make his visit after he announced? So really he does not give a rats ass about the troops because he was running for President by then.
Compelling argument you're making here. Searching Obama's senate records shows that he was talking about shortages in veteran's affairs budgets in 2005, and then went on to cosponsor a bill that led to a $1.5 billion increase in veteran's medical care. Also authored a Sheltering All Veterans Everywhere Act in '05, and a Homes for Heroes Act in '06.

Clearly doesn't give a shit about the troops.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:32 PM   #809
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you've convinced me

that Obama has a record

and Palin does not.
yes
a record of saying one thing and then doing something else.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:32 PM   #810
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I prefer this style
over ginning it all up like the Obama people did with all the hype and text crap.

in my opinion,

McCain's unveiling was a much, much bigger and more successful stunt.
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