US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7

[namkcuR]

Originally Posted by anitram

When did he say that?

In the other thread, the 'McCain could win if he picks Palin' thread, because I posted the same thing there and that's how he responded, by asking me if I thought he was qualified BEFORE running the campaign in January 2007, and I said yes.

But I also said that he and I measure 'qualified' in very different ways.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by anitram

When did he say that?

In the Palin thread.

[anitram]

Ah, I was scratching my head going through the posts here.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by financeguy

She is already governing. She has done more governing, in point of fact, than the other three Democratic or Republican Presidential or VP nominees.

She is governing Alaska, I believe it's a state in your country, and doing so pretty well by most accounts. A little outside the DC Beltway, which is possibly why you haven't heard of it.

Or maybe you're biased against women and dismiss their achievments.

all the snark aside, this totally misses the point, though i appreciate the attempt to wield empty American electoral catchphrases and pre-digested soundbytes as if one actually had the history and context to understand them.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

all the snark aside, this totally misses the point, though i appreciate the attempt to wield empty American electoral catchphrases and pre-digested soundbytes as if one actually had the history and context to understand them.

You know, I've disagreed with right wing American posters here on plenty of occasions, but none of them have ever implied, as you seem to be doing, that my point of view on US politics shouldn't be taken seriously because I lacked the 'history and context' to understand it.

[diamond]

But more importantly, where's Mittens?

[deep]

Originally Posted by financeguy

You know, I've disagreed with right wing American posters here on plenty of occasions, but none of them have ever implied, as you seem to be doing, that my point of view on US politics shouldn't be taken seriously because I lacked the 'history and context' to understand it.

the truth is

you made a valid point

she has executive experience

the others are only legislators

and Obama has no real accomplishments or anything to suggest he is a reformer.

Palin has much more of a track record in two years
than Obama has in 4 years

also, she went to Kuwait to visit the Alaskan National Guard.
and as Governor she is in commander in cheif of the Alaskan National Guard

Obama never went to visit the Illinois National Guard serving in Desert Shield.

It seems that when people can not give legitimate responses to opinion and statements in here they start writing about the poster or the style or some other nonsense.

I take it for what it is.

Is it a concession to the better argument?

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by financeguy

You know, I've disagreed with right wing American posters here on plenty of occasions, but none of them have ever implied, as you seem to be doing, that my point of view on US politics shouldn't be taken seriously because I lacked the 'history and context' to understand it.

on that post, i think you missed it.

i think Europeans tend not to understand some specifically American context, especially in regards to race.

i think many Europeans don't know nearly as much about America as they think they do.

i was referring to something specific.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by deep

It seems that when people can give legitimate responses to opinion and statements in here they start writing about the poster or the style on some other nonsense.

I take it for what it is.

A concession to the better argument.

good for you.

and when others are faced with legitimate responses to opinion,

they get deliberately simplistic.

so an argument like this:

Or maybe you're biased against women and dismiss their achievments.

passes for a "legitimate response."

[deep]

I admit I have some bias

do you think you have any?

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by deep

I admit I have some bias

do you think you have any?

i have convictions.

and i think i see the Republican party for what it is.

when it comes to FYM,

i think some of us think we are being contrarian

when they're just trying to get a rise out of others

by taking positions that are entirely contradictory to their long-held, oft-well-defended positions.

when i have comments on what's been dismissed as "style"

it's about the inability to actually have a discussion with some

who post a series of "facts" with zero analysis that bury any points of disagreement and discussion

in paragraphs that make most other posters leave the thread.

bias?

you decide.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

good for you.

and when others are faced with legitimate responses to opinion,

they get deliberately simplistic.

so an argument like this:



passes for a "legitimate response."

You are missing the context.

The context is - and I'm kind of surprised that I have to spell it out - that, here on FYM, conservatives are constantly being told:

- that they hate women, if they are against abortion on demand....

- that they hate gays, if they have reservations about gay marriage....

- that they hate blacks, if they are not on board with Obama.

And yet, the nomination of Sarah Palin has highlighted the latent misogyny of some on the left - and I don't necessarily just mean on this forum.

Or, maybe, just maybe, it isn't actually misogyny.

Maybe the criticisms of the family and life of Sarah Palin - how she CHOSEN to live her life - are being done just for the sake of temporary political expediency.

But, if that is the case, then frankly, it's even worse.

As Andrew Sullivan said with regard to Bush, he thought Bush probably wasn't a real homopobe, but was allying himself with homophobes for the sake of political advancement - which as Sullivan said - and I agree - is worse.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by financeguy

conservatives are constantly being told:

no.

this is what i think conservatives choose to hear about themselves.

i've offered myriad, nuanced, thoughtful, researched posts about Obama and race, and i've offered as much as i can to show how i believe race matters, and how it's impossible to view Obama without taking race into account.

if others choose this to mean that i believe they are racists,

i cannot be accountable for their ignorance.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by financeguy

Maybe the criticisms of the family and life of Sarah Palin - how she CHOSEN to live her life - are being done just for the sake of temporary political expediency.

i do not believe that any serious person

seriously believes

that Sarah Palin is *prepared* to be President of the United States.

[deep]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

i do not believe that any serious person

seriously believes

that Sarah Palin is *prepared* to be President of the United States.

I'd put Obama above her